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File:__original_drawn_by_mitsub….jpg (3.15 MB,2048x1880)

 No.151072[View All]

Is /qa/ spiritual? I'm a bit spiritual in my own way. I like to create my own rituals and I read lots of books on eastern spirituality, mainly buddhism and daoism. I have my own little shrine on a wall shelf. It's just a big Buddha statue, two framed pictures of my grandparents and a couple objects to represent them. I offer them water and flowers and I sometimes meditate while facing them. Although I don't consider myself a buddhist, I try to incorporate some elements of buddhism into my life: generosity, detachment, meditation... Same thing with daoism. I study the Dao and try to live with the flow. What about you guys?
96 posts and 19 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.152369

File:1423684531361.png (18.06 KB,368x328)

I'm not into organized religion stuff but I do think that the buddhists and gnostics were onto something. This place only makes sense as some sort of farm/trap.

 No.152395

File:2009-07-04-175494.jpeg (247.32 KB,1280x800)

this thread was so nice in the beginning...

 No.152397

>>152395
Things collapse under their own weight...

 No.152398

File:1497306733779.png (38.35 KB,202x376)

I want my foreskin back.

 No.152399

File:da60199f6182529249d41cc314….jpg (281.98 KB,744x1052)

I paused my daydreaming session to write this up. (You) better read this.

You shouldn't even waste time trying to think about certain topics before you get yourself involved with the following. In this world, as of now, there exist some materials that are universally as useful as dietary supplements. Actual dietary supplements are useful, too (neuroplasticity and gut-brain axis health are especially important). I'm not your dad to tell you how to metabolize either. I'm risking anyone else getting deeper understanding than I do, you know. Ranking and score are cool, this is serious business.
If you having issues in finding a book, it's on Anna's Archive.

The vitamins.
Esoteric reading. There are books on how to do it, and you don't need even a single one of them. Once in a while, pretend an author means something most sensible and good as a whole at least on their unconscious level, and try to figure out what it is. Actually, nevermind, there are no books on this, as this is also steelmanning. I didn't realize how significant it is until I wrote this up. If you had encountered something important but didn't employ esoteric steelman reading - re-encounter it. You have to be hyper delicate to ever use this in interactions with people.
Heart Sutra. No comments.
Diamond Sutra. No comments.
Twilight of the Idols. It's just beneficial to see how an inferior version of the previous two looks like.
Language is inescapable. Aleister Crowley was repulsive and often off the mark, but his "etymology asserts the identity" (Letter No. H to Cara Soror) phrase was spot-on. If you feel controversy around a word, do a thorough research on the word.
Jung and Jungianism. I kinda hate them, but they're useful. You don't have to go deep all at once. It's better if you juggle it gradually with the rest. https://archive.ph/FHWBH

Buddhism.
The suggestion from me is just this section to clear up mistranslation misunderstandings that became commonplace.
https://archive.org/details/WhatTheBuddhaThought/page/n83

Christianity.
The entire website is fun, the webpage is essential. Some anons even here can't tell the difference between Yahweh and El Elyon. Sweet baby Jesus Christ, this is embarrassing.
https://archive.ph/yRGlz

Religion. Anthropology. Magic.
The Ancient City.
The Golden Bough.

Metaphysics. Ontology.
Plato's potentiality and actuality are cool, but the oriental practices are the ones that actually bother to look into the "origin/bridge/goal" of the two. Out of Western thinkers, I had seen only a single unimportant Christian theologist accidentally address the important, and it was quite something that he didn't realize the significance of his discovery. Taoism gets closest to it, but it's not the Tao, and it exactly does not and can not come closer, because Tao is not it (you could also interpret it as truth VS reality. A bit irrelevant to the section, too short to have a section of its own, but important enough to write).

 No.152400

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Consciousness. Death.
Orch-OR, Stuart and Hameroff branch. Hameroff's most accessible explanations are scattered all over his twitter account, if you need them. Really try to understand them from the basics, take your time, use all the tools out there for this. I had been reading around for 5 years and I'm still behind any publishing proponent of the theory.
You need to get a good basis on your own death meditation. How it would be like to be a cell line of brain cells? How it would be like to be a brain organoid? Monks do the death meditation on corpses and skeletons, but you're lucky to have internet - you can go further without it being illegal. There is enough footage with the cameraman dying in hearable soundful agony out there. You ought to do this until you have nightmares of your existence being actively rewritten. The contents of such nightmares are useful.

Science.
There are no good books on this. The scientific method is reliant on unprovable assumptions (a Munchausen Trilemma classic), and, by laws of anything of language, objectivity can't exist without the sweet subjectivity. If you disagree, it's because you're wrong you haven't taken the vitamins.

Acausality. Magic.
By laws of anything of language, causality can't exist without acausality. If you disagree, it's because you're wrong and bound by gravity of karma you haven't taken the vitamins.
Atom and Archetype.
Neville Goddard's Feeling Is the Secret.

Drugs.
Many preach that drugs are needed to get anywhere meaningful. They're right: everyone is an endocannabinoids and endoopiod junkie getting their daily hits in the first place. Let me guess, you need more? Stroke your placebo muscle.

>>152091
>I strongly encourage everyone to study these traditions and to experiment with the practices they provide. I especially warmly recommend focused attention meditation and the various Taoist bodily practices. Spiritual reality is not "out there", it's right here, and while this might be projection, browsing internet all day long in shrimp posture will kill your ability to interface with it.
The least everyone here should do is a combination of horse stance Dan-Tian holotropic breathing that includes death meditation intermeshed with microcosmic orbit meditation and Chi Kung's "feel the endless ground below, feel the endless sky above" meditation. Doing it on relaxed powerwalks or literally any other activity instead of the horse stance is fine, too. The more consistence and frequency of the practice there is, the better. Ito Ittosai's school of thought (Eric Shahan, as usual, made a great translation) is also useful to keep your motions and spirit fluid even in everyday life.
One has to be always on the prowl to see if one could go even further.

 No.152401

>>152362
It's the arational no-consciousness source realm of archetypes (i.e. platonic ideas as they're processed biologically) and synchronicities. It's not inaccurate to say it's what the biological gets as its realm of potentiality or Platonic ideas. There are probably better ways to word this. Atom and Archetype elaborates on this the most.

 No.152402

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Cybernetics.
"As Above, So Below."
Conway's Game of Life.
Control theory.
A Thousand Plateaus (schizoanalysis' only good book that's also standalone).
Any field's propagation theory. Germs, radiowaves, memes, whatever.
https://www.scirp.org/journal/paperinformation?paperid=131506

 No.152403

>>152395
I blame people framing their answer to OP in the form of lists of homework and implications that no one knows shit except for them.

 No.152404

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>>152369
I'm reminded of this classic image.

 No.152506

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>>152341
Yes mr. inquisitor, it's this guy! The sex-having demonologist who keeps making graven images of the highest order!
Now, while we wait for reinforcements to arrive, I would like to tell you this, which I find pretty interesting: in the Renaissance there was a spike in demonology, which in fact took place even (or particularly) in monasteries:
>According to reports that reached the papal curia, the Bolognese Carmelites were causing a great scandal throughout the city by publicly preaching that summoning demons in order to obtain responses from them to specific questions was not heretical.
>Necromancers were commonly individuals who were clerics, including university students and men in minor orders — often monks, friars, or diocesan priests.
https://annas-archive.org/scidb/10.1086/664084/
It's worth mentioning that this case took place 1473 (and at that point had been a thing for decades), which was well before the Lesser Key of Solomon or its predecessor the Pseudomonarchia Daemonum were published in later centuries. With that, I leave your fate up to the ecclesiastical court... saraba, he who consorts with the forces of Heck.
>>152399
>Jung and Jungianism. I kinda hate them, but they're useful.
I know folklorists usually despise Jung (and Campbell with his monomyth), what do you dislike about him? You recommend The Golden Bough, so I assume it's not just archetypal analysis.
>Buddhism.
I can see in the sutras that "all forms are illusive and unreal" or that forms are emptiness/sunyata and vice versa, which I was aware of, and other ideas I need to dwell more on, but there's an issue I have that was mentioned in >>152091 and in the passage you point to that I'm not sold on. Gombrich argues that an ultimate unchanging reality does exist as per the Upanishads, and seemingly that atman actually exists as well, but does the Buddha not explain that no one who believes this can be his disciple? It's strange that he would argue native buddhists misunderstood this, but he's the one getting it right by applying a rival school of thought. I want to hear your take on it. Given your mention of the laws of anything of language I assume you would argue that both atman and anatman occur, but maybe I'm getting ahead of myself.
>Any field's propagation theory. Germs, radiowaves, memes, whatever.
This one's certainly interesting. One paper I came across when looking at this stuff was this one analyzing variation in folk songs as if it were DNA:
https://www.cell.com/current-biology/pdf/S0960-9822(22)00092-6.pdf
My personal belief is that these commonalities come from basic limitations that determine the scope of possibilities, in this case imperfect reproduction. Both DNA and human learning commit little mistakes (or to use a less loaded term, deviations) when bits are transferred, which implies a whole set of ramifications. Kind of like slime mold's pathfinding lining up with human-made route-building, due to optimizing for the shortest length with some sort of basic heuristic, which ends up converging in its results even though the mold appears to be radically simpler. Make of that what you will.
>horse stance Dan-Tian holotropic breathing
Those are a lot of words I am not familiar with.
>>152401
I believe for Jung the archetype is something that actually exists as a part of the world, as opposed to a pure Platonic ideal, right? From a cursory reading consciousness interfacing with the material world is a big theme, but I'd have to dig further into it. Just in case, do you believe it's only the unconscious that is shared, or also active consciousness?

fuarrk it's late

 No.152520

>thread supposedly about spirituality
>ingredients : 100% intellectual masturbation
Why is it always like this?

 No.152521

>>152520
On 4chan I would have already tried to derail the thread with fat Yuyuko tits in an attempt to make anons relax. I try to be better here.

 No.152524

>>152520
>want people to turn their brains off and be religious
>people keep pointing out the nonsense, obvious lies and indisputably evil shit in religion instead
Why can't modern people just listen and believe like previous generations?

 No.152525

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>>152520
>>152524
Who are you quoting?

 No.152526

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>>152521
Yuyu's yuyus are a way that one can find spirituality which resides within themself.

 No.152528

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>>152526
I think boobs are part of my religion, yes.

 No.152546

File:C-1745852793548.png (942.17 KB,644x900)

>>152526
>>152528
Which religion contains the most boobiful gods? I may be open to converting.

 No.152554

>>152520
this guy voted in favor of executing socrates

 No.152581

File:68839548_p0.jpg (900.96 KB,1278x1000)

>>152546
Based on boobhus, I assume Shinto or Buddhism or a mix of both.

 No.152582

File:16d040dcf2ede703fedb920f85….jpg (163.71 KB,1110x1553)

>>152581
But I don't know if the gods will allow you to devote yourself to more than one of them. Maybe you'd need to consult one of their Mikos about that.

 No.152586

A splinter discussion was made for this thread after a certain part of it went too political. If you want to find and continue that discussion you can use this thread >>>/secret/37244

 No.152602

Yuyuko saved the day...

 No.152606

File:.gif (8.94 KB,112x112)

>>152506
I considered and still consider Goetia et al. to be fanfiction about Solomon, and Goetia et al. fans to be insufferable, but it's still amusing that I got something out of it, because I had approached it thoroughly and earnestly, even if while being upfront about rushed bruteforcing to bypass rituals I don't care about.
>in the Renaissance there was a spike in demonology, which in fact took place even (or particularly) in monasteries
Yup. Even up to that point, it had been extending as far as to any forbidden (non-folk) magic. I actually wanted to recommend a pair of my favourite books where the second one of them covers exactly this and more, but I thought it'd be just for the sake of nerding out for fun, funnily.
¥The Book of Grimoires: The Secret Grammar of Magic' (2013), Claude Lecouteux.
¥'Grimoires: A History of Magic Books' (2009), Owen Davies.
It's extra funny that what's seen as symbol of satanism by laypeople (Baphomet) was popularized by crusaders in the first place.

>I know folklorists usually despise Jung (and Campbell with his monomyth), what do you dislike about him?
Jung's own works are rather negligent on individuation, the methods towards experiences of transcendent are reliant on evoking awe no matter how shallow it may be, and the general structure of the thought system is based off the same impersonal patternage of society that it's supposed to clean up after. Most of Jungians are even worse, and only a few like Von Franz (I don't see how any real folklorist would have any issues with her books on fairy tales, myths, folk tales) and Robert Moore do better. Campbell is irredeemable for lazily shilling his monomything while mixing up Freudian and Jungian interpretations of terms and displaying no delicate sensitivity towards interpretations that even Jung kind of had, as Jung had avoided preaching about any interpretations as absolute truth.

>https://www.cell.com/current-biology/pdf/S0960-9822(22)00092-6.pdf
>My personal belief is that these commonalities come from basic limitations that determine the scope of possibilities,
Sensible.
>in this case imperfect reproduction
If it means that perfect reproduction should lead to ethnicities becoming as different as species, then I suppose so.
$1Crudely speaking, this is directly related to how chimps perceive cooing as friendly, and loud behavior that shows teeth as a threat. The coolest thing there could be is figuring out which genres evoke what and why would one like them, on level of neurobiology and biosocial signaling theory. It's a non-spiritual tangent here, just my curiosity.


>I believe for Jung the archetype is something that actually exists as a part of the world, as opposed to a pure Platonic ideal, right?
Within the world as the whole of wholes? Yeah.
Archetypes are never something that a consciousness encounters or could ever encounter even through intuition, it encounters only its manifestations, models, representations, even if such are very accurate to the archetype.
I guess one could also interpret it that the world of potentiality that archetypes reside in are intermeshed with the basic particles that make the patterns. Schizoanalysis' body without organs and rhizomes would be the best to use as an alternative explanation of what are fields of archetypes in how they're manifested - accidental systems that happen to get definitive characteristics that define them as something separate from what it's not part of, while all it does is happening to run on nothing but chaos and entropy with no structure to it. It's the closest that a non-subjectivity system could get to subjectivity. It's a serious cybernetics thing to understand. I'm rambling a bit, but it's tangible in sensibility.
>From a cursory reading consciousness interfacing with the material world is a big theme, but I'd have to dig further into it.
For synchronicities, it's that synchronization occurs between one's consciousness and one's unconsciousness, enough that one's standpoint of experience (exactly the clearest definition of Ego) is involved. I now understand that my biggest gripe ever is people falling for the synchronicities that are not truly personal to them; pandering to egocentricity without subjectivity being involved.
>Just in case, do you believe it's only the unconscious that is shared, or also active consciousness?
I'm not sure what you mean by this question.
Personal consciousness and unconsciousness can never be shared fully, because they're around a subjectivity, specific qualia, a viewpoint based on the territory it holds (the sandwich of unconscious-subjectivity-consciousness is composite self, subjectivity is the archetypal Self. Jung's theory isn't actually advanced to this point to differentiate this much, it's just the clarification I had to figure out. It's funny that not a single spiritual system ever badmouths the phenomenon of subjective preferences); it's the collective consciousness and collective unconsciousness that are about shareability.
One could argue all of this even from purely a materialistic standpoint; I don't bother to talk to materialists deeply, but grounding is needed for clarity. I put belief only in things like "people are worth it for me to interact with them."

Thanks for helping out with stretching muscles in topics I haven't participated in for a while.

 No.152607

>>152606
>It's extra funny that what's seen as symbol of satanism by laypeople (Baphomet) was popularized by crusaders in the first place.
Well yes but they were burnt at the stake for that so it's not like Baphomet was ever a Church-approved figure...

 No.152714

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>>152607
Yeah. I just don't think such things would have happened as much as they did if it weren't for the downstream consequences of predatory Roman Christianity subjugating other sects for sinful power-politics reasons and declaring them heretics. ( https://archive.ph/yRGlz )

 No.152727

>>152714
>predatory Roman Christianity subjugating other sects but this isn't the case.
Roman catholicism was the most successful version, not because of their power, but because of their willingness to accept other sects into their fold. And just as their beliefs influenced and subsumed those other sects, they were influenced by the smaller groups in turn.
katolikos is green and means all-encompassing and until the east Roman schism, it was.

 No.152737

>>152727
Tell that to all the gnostics and other heretics they slaughtered.

 No.152741

>>152727
That was just one tool in their toolbelt. There was just as much blood. The technique depended on the power dynamic of the individual clash of beliefs.
>>152737
Indeed, the crusade against the Cathars is the origin of the phrase "kill them all and let God sort them out." Grim stuff.

 No.152751

>>152737
gnostics are as christian as rastafari

 No.153247

>>152606
I want to continue this conversation, but it's gonna require me to read a bunch of stuff and I'm currently rather busy. I just want to say that I'm not backing out of this conversation, and that I'm still interested.

 No.161281

File:lol, pissu.gif (1.3 MB,300x140)

>>151072
I was wondering if it's possible to make a giver box.
Basically a magic money jar but instead it's a cardboard box and you can put whatever you want inside it besides money and you get it in return. Maybe tenfold or a hundredfold.
Representations work too.

So for example, you put a picture of ako inside and you get an ako back. Or you put a dollar inside and you get a dollar back, or 10 dollars, or 100 dollars, depending on what you want.

As long as it's not too big to fit in the box else you overfill it and it rips to shreds.

 No.161282

My personality leans heavily towards rationality and abstraction. This isn't to say I'm a skeptical, that's a disposition I pretty much lack, but I am unable to put faith in things I do not understand. Nothing obliterates faith better than incomprehesion. Buddhism, specifically pure land buddhism, is what I lean towards the most. I view everything as empty and its value dependent on the needs and goals of sentient beings. I believe emptiness allows for change. I think rituals and signs are shadows of meaning. I don't believe in an objective reality that's distinct from a subjective perspective. I believe in causality.
>>152268
People who debate against ghosts are insufferable.

 No.161291

>>161282
>People who debate against ghosts are insufferable
I make sure to be extra insufferable by debating only in favor of most likely ghosts!

 No.161294

>>161291
There's nobility in fighting for those who can't fight for themselves.

 No.162857

File:Der_ungläubige_Thomas_-_Mi….jpg (1.09 MB,2560x1900)

DUAL DENOMINATION REVIEW: JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES AND PENTECOSTALS

So, two weeks ago, on Tuesday 23rd of October, someone rang my bell and I picked up the phone. Thankfully it wasn't the daily request for clothing, and the conversation went something like this:
¥Do you believe there can be peace on Earth?
¥¥I don't, no.
¥...well, what if there was a way?
¥¥Is the way Jesus?
¥Yes, would you like to talk about it?
Turns out these were Jehovah's Witnesses! So I took the chance to say yes and go down to talk with them, for once. As a diehard physicalist, I'm interested in how people today experience religion in their lives, partly as a matter of epistemology, partly as a matter of the communal life that so many say has been lost. The visitors were three people, a granny, an older man, and a younger guy, I asked about their schedule and it just so happened they'd meet the day after at 18:30 in a nearby venue. The witnesses don't meet up once but twice a week, you see. So I went there the next day and was very surprised by what I encountered.

The room where the congregation met was a rather small one, in which about thirty or forty people fit into, much smaller than most churches. There is a small stage in the back with a podium, and on each of its sides a television is hung on the wall. The decoration is plain, and there are no icons whatsoever. Mass on Wednesdays is divided into three stages: Treasures from God's Word, Apply Yourself to the Field Ministry, and Living as Christians. All three of these are composed months in advance and instruction is distributed worldwide through their magazine The Watchtower—Study Edition. (Most witnesses used the app, JW Library.) The mag I was given contained the programme for the entirety of September and October with dates for each topic, and as their site says it was prepared in July, as well as this workbook from here. Their issues contain a good deal of solid art and photography, and lots of text to go over with accompanying questions for every paragraph or two. At the start of mass and when transitioning from one stage to another, everyone stands up to sing a hymn, whose lyrics appear in the TVs and it specifies in brackets the verses it is inspired by. (Hymns are also part of the preprogrammed.) There are at least 162 unique songs, here listed with lyrics and playable instrumentals in their unexpectedly sophisticated site:
https://www.jw.org/en/library/music-songs/sing-out-joyfully/
I recommend going through a few of them.

Treasures is effectively Bible study homework. An elder (because they do not have priests) gave a lecture on Ecclesiastes and Solomon, and brought someone from the congregation to narrate the verses and pre-redacted text to accompany class. For every paragraph or two there was a question to answer, and two other members carrying microphones moved around the room to let people read out loud the answers they had brought. After this came Field Ministry, where multiple members of the congregation came forward to roleplay meeting people out while evangelizing, and we went over four situations: "start up conversation" divided into "informal preaching" and "formal preaching", "make revisits", and "make disciples". Evangelizing is an obligation, and in this section they practice and rehearse their techniques to bring in new converts. This level of involvement shocked me, frankly, about as much as their organizational structure. Instead of having a leading priest, the leadership of a JW chapter is formed by a group of elders who cycle in their responsibilities, which is a very interesting choice allegedly inspired by 1st century Christianity. Lots of roles and rotation therein.

Then we sang another song and moved on to Living as Christians, which is about applying biblical lessons to one's
day to day life. It was about giving proper advice to others, featuring various duos from scripture. We finished that day with lessons 20 and 21 for more Bible study, you can find the 103 lessons here:
https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/bible-stories-lessons/
Luckily, we were dealing with Exodus, a great opportunity for debate! As you may know, there's absolutely no archeological evidence whatsoever that there ever were two million Israelites enslaved in Egypt, nor proof that anything close to the Plagues struck the greatest regional power in catastrophic succession, which raises problems for literal readings of the Bible's historical narratives. But there's also the point of God hardening of the pharaoh's heart, which the text is ambiguous about and some exegesis is needed to tackle the matter. It does say about half of the time that it's God acting on the pharaoh, and the other half that the pharaoh did it on his own, either way God already knew what would happen and it was part of his plan.

So how do the witnesses get around this? Easy! Just alter the text! Instead, their Bible reads "I will allow his heart to become obstinate", absolving God of any implications! Why do this? Because it wouldn't make sense for God to intervene like that, of course. We need to convey the truth plainly, and if this requires radically altering the syntax, then so be it. God certainly would never do such a thing, it just doesn't make sense.
Their version, the New World Translation, is infamously biased in matters of theology. Their trademark is the replacement of every instance of Adonai and Kyrios in favor of Jehovah, something the Israelites moved away from several centuries before Christ, but this is relatively unimportant compared to other points. Most inter-Christian conflict is based on the Gospel of John, where any verses that may be used to argue for Christ's divine nature is modified and rewritten, most notably John 1:1. But the same sleight of hand as above is also used elsewhere, like Ezekiel 20:25-26 where God's statement that he gave the Israelites statutes demanding child sacrifice is likewise altered to say he allowed them to fall into that. Because of course, God would never do that. Or a retcon in 2 Kings 3:27, which otherwise points towards earlier polytheism and another kind of sacrifice. They also consider Sheol and Hades to be metaphorical, so these are changed into "the tomb", an allegory with no theological implications. They assert there is neither heaven nor hell, nor an immortal soul, and that the Kingdom of God will be a place on Earth where God will reconstruct all believers using his perfect memory, like an inverse Roko's Basilisk. They also argue Jesus was not executed on a cross but a stake and that the cross was a pagan introduction by Rome, based on faulty etymological arguments from the XIX century.
Of course, they also believe biblical history to be literally true, and every fact in the Bible to be scientifically true as well, while anyone confused about it is operating under "personal interpretations" that are the wrongful product of false religions. (They'll repeatedly offer you a course to correct that.) Even with all their revisionism, they'll tell you no other group believes in the Bible, not truly, and the impending end of the world will see the events of Revelation come to life, in the year... 1975. Apocalypticism really is the most retarded facet of Abrahamic belief:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events
Just last month there was RaptureTok. Christ almighty...

I also visited on Saturday 27th, and the topic was how peace on Earth is absolutely unattainable due to Satan's control over the world (1 John 5:19), and personal peace can only be found in submitting totally to Jehovah's rule. That day we sang Song 87 which I found to be particularly egregious, here is the literal translation of what we sang, courtesy of Hebrews 10:24-25:
¥The world walks in darkness, straight towards destruction
¥Yet today we are guided by Jehovah, he brings us illumination
¥In our reunions, we nurture our faith to demonstrate loyalty
¥Here too we cultivate maturity, perseverance, love, and goodwill
¥For nothing in the world will we ever want to leave our congregation
¥And less so being so close to the day of salvation
In many ways, the witnesses showcase the worst of Abrahamism. Deluded historical fanfiction, disdain for the world and humanity, an eagerness for everything to end, tight control of their members, myriad reports of abuse, billions in wealth, and the insistence that they aren't there to debate but to teach. It's a damn sad state of affairs, and that's why I wanted to hear their side of the story, even if it's totally bonkers. I tried having a conversation with one of the people who first rang my bell, the younger guy who told me he'd been exploring denominations for a decade (including Jews and Muslims) until he landed with the witnesses. He said he saw himself in my own exploration, but he'd always link to articles in the site and wouldn't engage with any arguments I presented, as if pre-minimalism apologia would be satisfactory. After I told him we'd reached an impasse and wished him well in this life and the next, he sent me a hug and blocked me, until a few days later where he invited me to their talk about physical proof for Jehovah's existence. It'll be on the 18th, and I'll attend to see if they have anything interesting to present.


So, now a description of the other guys...
There's a baker I regularly buy sandwiches from who's a Protestant, and we've been talking about theology for a while now. He used to be a Catholic, but converted to Pentecostalism after their prayers cured the terminal illness of his son many years ago, while medics were sure he'd die, now he considers the Vatican to be the Whore of Babylon. It's a decently common story. We're on good terms, and he's told me I'd be a great preacher if only God came forth to bring me in. I asked him what church could I check out, and he pointed me towards a fancy one nearby, an Evangelical place. Their schedule had like six instances of mass across the weekend, and I chose to go at 15:30 last Saturday with a friend who's been there before.

The place was way bigger than I expected. We entered a large hall, forming a quarter circle rather than a rectangle, centered on a stage in the corner where a large chorus, four main singers, and a whole band were practicing. It had guitar, bass, drums inside a glass box, and a violin. All around the stage there were screens for a concert... because it actually was a concert. After everyone got in, they started playing rock hymns. It was fun, the songs were mostly about hype, being filled with God's fire and spirit, swimming in his waters, it didn't have the slave-like affection of the witnesses, and my friend described it as "intense". Although nice to sing along to they were admittedly fairly repetitive, though for me it served to shine a new light on premodern songs in that sense. What surprised me was seeing that grannies would be going to a weekly rock concert, I guess grandma's still got it.

After half an hour of rock music, a preacher came in, and started talking about Acts 3 where they heal a disabled man, about the powers of Jesus, God's benevolence, worshipping the Lord, and all that stuff... while the chorus was still singing, mind you. A key detail about Pentecostals is that they don't believe spiritual gifts ended with the Apostalic Age, they say God's still doing that stuff all the time, particularly healing and speaking in tongues. The preacher himself randomly spoke gibberish inbetween his praises, while the band still played, though more muted now. Mass lasted in total about two hours, but there's very little for me to comment on, as half of it was music and the other half was hyping up God, with very little theology to speak of. Oh yeah, and there was a visibly neurodivergent girl in front of me stimming with her Madoka pin. I asked what she thought of the series and she replied it was great. The man next to her started swearing a bunch during prayer, no clue why.
At the end we opened the little pack of industrial bread and grape juice for the Eucharist, it was nice. Wrongful consumption of the Lord's supper is highlighted by Paul as a major sacrilege (1 Corinthians 11:27), but man, I just had to get a taste of that grape juice. These guys don't even believe in transubstantiation, clearly it can't be as bad as when I did it at Catholic mass.

So yeah, that one didn't seem to be as bad as the witnesses. I do think that trusting you'll be miraculously healed of your physical or mental illnesses by unknowable forces is one of the most harmful beliefs a person can possibly have, and the habit of getting spasms from being touched by the Holy Spirit isn't something I endorse. They also have a tithe for ideally 10% of your salary, which I'm not really sure if it's totally voluntary, and it has served as a vehicle for pushing the prosperity gospel. Aaaand they are literalists like so many other evangelicals, which, again, is a retarded stance to take, and contributes towards deluding them. Nonetheless, they can be feverish in their belief, and my Catholic friend positively compared them to saints, saying they truly seemed to be touched by God. I can at least say the baker is a very faithful guy, and it doesn't seem to have done him much bad.

 No.162870

>>162857
>saying they truly seemed to be touched by God
I recall how in some languages, "as if having God's will" means crazy

 No.162871

File:1584065304937.png (2.36 MB,1700x1224)

I think there should be a european shinto.

 No.162872

>>162870
Enthusiasm is etymologically about being possessed by theos, indeed.
>>162871
That tree was cut down a long time ago. Anyways, blame Platonism.

 No.162873

>>162872
What did Platonist thought ever do to you?

 No.162875

>>162873
It made the real world into a fable...

 No.163090

>>162875
>It made the real world into a fable...
It's funny how both the West and the East seem to agree the "real world" is an illusion.

 No.163093

>>163090
East vs West really comes down to Indic vs Abrahamic religions (yes, that includes Muslims) and from its very origin Christianity has been steeped in Platonism while discarding the materialist Epicureans that used to be so popular in Rome

 No.164804

File:20251023211020.jpg (4.76 MB,5016x3541)

I'm not sure what counts as being spiritual, but I do believe consciousness is the source of all knowledge. Science sounds cool and all but it presupposes an objective world that isn't compatible with consciousness. Then there's the problem of induction which, if you take seriously enough, gives you reason to believe that there can be no laws governing our consciousness and that it's necessarily just an endless stream of arbitrary sensations.

>>152287
I understood that reference

 No.164805

>>151072
Was a nihilist antitheist most my life until Alan Watts cured my atheism.

 No.164807

>Is /qa/ spiritual?

No.

 No.164811

>>162871
We had one in Scandinavia and then it was convert to Christianity or get murdered. I'm sure the same is true for rest of Europe.

 No.164813

Meditated in the dark a few days ago, and got the dhyana nimitta/jyoti. "Experts" say it's just phosphenes, because I rubbed my eyes, but I never had phosphenes this big, vivid, and slowly forming up right as I've been seeing them. I don't think it's directly spiritual or some ophthalmological pathology though. Even if I know my brain neurotransmitter receptors are weird, that's a bit too much.

 No.164835

>>151072
I am lazy. I'll believe whatever gets people off my back. So I am Christian.

 No.164837

>>164835
> I'll believe whatever gets people off
A-Anon... You can't say that...




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