uh the bible doesn't say to make sure life is preserved you fend for yourself once you're out of your mom's womb

>>33777
that's such a weird stance. If one were to call an abortion murder but not call the state ignoring you manslaughter, then the idea of killing someone does not have any sort of absolute moral value that Western relgions promote

that's to say that you would have to call anti-abortion as what they really are... purely a reaction to anti-natalism and attempting to force a resolution to a problem without concern of consequence

I agree with all those positions and I would have signed it no problem. If we're going to have more children to replace the population gap + feed the SS machine, we might as well give enough to be fed and educated and all that.
Also military budget should be slashed wholesale too.

>>33782
sorry that's communism and evil

>>33780
You have a weird stance too. If somebody doesn't give you money it does not mean they have killed you plus the American sate doesn't actually IGNORE such issues, it's just incompetent and outdated and pulled in many directions and has many problems to deal with all at one time.

>>33781
I don't think that has much to do with it. It seems to be based on religion.

>>33782
Same, I agree with them too and my country already has some of them to some degree. Though the military budget is important and should be kept as it is.

>>33782
the straight shota machine should be well oiled i agree

>>33785
If you see someone visibly starving in front of you and you don't give them bread, then you wouldn't be a christian.
If you want someone to have a kid without the means to afford it then you have to take responsibility and pay for child support

what we need is strong family networks able to support their children and fulfill their needs, that's what the world is missing

>>33788
Pretty good, could do better though.

>>33787
If you have bread and it's within your means, if you can't afford it then it's not expected that you would. But the US has systems in place to support people like that, there are food stamps and such. It's just often not enough and the USA is quite bad at implementing these kinds of things. As an example, this might surprise you but the US Government spends more on public healthcare as a percentage of GDP than Australia and most other developed nations do. America's terrible public health system isn't really a funding issue.

And not wanting somebody to murder their child doesn't mean you have to take responsibility for it. Now I'm not against abortion and I am not religious but it must be remembered that from an evangelical Christians viewpoint that is what abortion is, they think it is murdering your own child.

>>33789
yeah you just can't beat school days

>>33790
I am arguing from the perspective that the idea that abortion is infanticide and from that I posit that the reality of infanticide in cases that don't involve abortion is that the financial desperation of a parent leads them to commit murder.

So if something is causing murder to exist, you admit that financial conditions are the cause, and you don't address the problem of financial stress on poor parents, then you are committing manslaughter.
If you posit that God will save the children through prayer then you are a heathen.

See, abortion without big government does not make sense.

Of course. I also know that religous people will be like "we need to bring back big families and make the women always stay at home while the dad works 10 hour shifts" But it's not an actual answer and I could argue that back. But at this point it's obvious that the person has bought into the conservative brain rot that the world we live in needs to be torn down and made anew

>>33792
Not every child that doesn't get aborted gets murdered by their parents in financial desperation, the vast majority don't. The worst it usually gets is child services taking the child from them. Most the time when children are murdered by their parents it's due to other reasons(in Australia some men kill their ex-partners and their children at the same time for some reason, I don't really understand the motivation but it happens and it's becoming a political issue here).
So forcing a child not to be aborted isn't equal to murder because the child is very unlikely to actually be murdered or die(though it's probably not going to be raised very well as the type of people that need an abortion are generally the type who should not have a child anyway).

The US government has limited resource, all of them do. All governments know that poverty is an issue and they all take actions to combat it it's just that the problem is often too much for them to deal with and often they have their resources stretched towards too many places. They are not letting this happen and doing nothing about it.

>>33793
??? I'm not sure if that's addressed to me or not. I don't think the world or my country needs to be torn down. I actually think Australia is run fairly well even if it does do some things that annoy me and does have some issues.

>>33795
it's not addressed to anyone, but traditionalists(and those of a similar political party that was endorsed by nazis) state that liberal society is degenerate and needs to be reformed to one that feels secure and like nothing can go wrong...
Ironically they call for a big government lead by a single person rather than a big government lead by a huge bureaucracy.

>>33796
Well the Nazis were actually supporters of abortion and euthanasia, were an Atheist organisation and they were quite big on big government but anyway.
The far right in the US(and most other places too) don't want big government, they are basically anarcho-capilists.
Politics are weird.

But they are right, society is degenerate but then so is the far right and many of these "traditionalists" are not actually all that traditional. One of my issues with the far right is that I actually agree with some of their societal grievances but they put forth these grievances in such a terrible way that they really do more harm than good. Somebody like J.K Rowling is actually a far better spokesperson on transgender issues than most people on the far right are.

>>33797
I didn't expect someone to ruin their argument so thoroughly. But I guess that's the /secret/ curse

>>33796
german ö is surprisingly straightforward, it sounds funny but it's literally an [e] with your lips rounded

Alright fuck it.
*steps into the minefield*
I am not Christian but still am decidedly against abortion in the sense that it should not be approved simply because a healthy mature woman "feels like it" - not in any state in the union - not in the world. Medical necessity or a 12 year old rape victim is another thing entirely.
It's actually a bit of its own problem that being pro life can only be seen as defensible from a Christian lens, despite America pretty clearly being post Christian country anyways just going through the motions and baggage of faith. Both sides always just seem to be putting on a bit of an act to me.

Look, the birthrates issue, immigration, the housing crisis, and women's reproductive legislation are intrinsically linked - It's clearly being pushed as just a wedge issue that will further worsen relationships between men and women, and birth policy is an issue that effects not only everyone alive, but everyone who will be born into the coming world as well; for the new generations each baby not born is a friend they will not have to grow alongside, to learn with, it's someone who will not become an adult in their community to learn their own trade and reciprocate with to continue society, I could go on and on with it. It's a further step towards catastrophe.

I don't really care at all about what you think of abortion. I was only interested in discussing it from the viewpoint of Christian ethics and anti-socialism.

You're arguing it from a position of being against anti-natalism

>>33811
There are other viewpoints to defend a ban on abortion from but the main one is that of Evangelical Christians, that's also why abortion isn't a serious political issue anywhere in the world but the US.

The Birthrate issue is linked to house prices and to some degree immigration in the sense that immigration causes house prices to go up but I don't think Abortion is connected to it much if at all. Abortion is not that common and also I think in many cases not aborting a child can actually cause a decrease in population and not an increase.
If a stupid girl gets pregnant from a one night stand and then has to keep the child that's going to make it harder and more complicated for her to start and raise a family in the future. So yes, you might be creating one child but in many cases you are probably preventing 2 more from being born. I think that many girls who are forced to have a child they are not ready for probably only end up having that one child.

>>33813
>but the main one is that of Evangelical Christians, that's also why abortion isn't a serious political issue anywhere in the world but the US.
Are Evangelicals mostly in the US? I'd never thought about the demographic distribution of different branches of Christianity.

>>33814
Yes, many puritans left Europe due to persecution and ended up in Britain's American colonies, the First Great Awakening happened in Britain and Britain's American colonies and the second, third and fourth great awakenings all happened in the USA.

It's why the USA has so many of those weird denominations, they either were created in the USA(like Mormonism) or are just bigger in the USA than in other nations.

>>33792
>abortion is infanticide
This is true and it's silly to support one while condemning the other. I disagree that financial issues are always the cause, though. Lots of people just don't want to deal with having a kid and cite their own immaturity as a justification for not accepting responsibility.