>>7851
cute desktop anonymous
Is Menhera-chan there a part of the background image or some kind of mascot software?

>>7851
>Pictures
Does this count as posting s*yj*ck?

>>7851
you have to go back

>>7851
you have to stay in

>>7851
you don't get to bring friends

Started off with Linux Mint (which is based on Ubuntu). It was a great introduction for getting me into Linux but many of my essential software had stability issues for some reason and I had no idea why. Firefox would freeze up and crash on me for dragging certain HTML elements like links and images. My desktop environment would not successfully shut down without throwing exceptions. I ended up thinking that it's all Ubuntu's fault so then I decided to migrate to another distribution. Also, I did not want any of the pre-installed software that came with Mint.

After quitting Ubuntu, I move to Debian which allows you to start with a distribution that doesn't come with anything but what's required for the system to run and lets you install only what you need. So I install my browser, my essential stuff, and notice that I did not run into any stability issues whatsoever. Debian solved the issues I have and became my daily driver. It was pretty solid to me and was exactly what I was looking for in a Linux distro. If you're looking for a desktop environment that kinda resembles the Windows XP look and feel, you should give trinity desktop a try. It is based on KDE 3.

>>7858
>Photoshop
Is that using wine?
>I ended up thinking that it's all Ubuntu's fault
Glad you thought so, normally it'd be "Linux is not ready!" and back to Windows you go.
I had a similar experience when starting my Linux journey as well. Thought I'd go with Mint, everyone online (on reddit and YouTube) seemed to agree it was the best distro to get into Linux. I couldn't get my graphics card to work with it. Had some weird screen tearing even after numerous re-installs. I was hellbent on going Linux though, so I tried Debian and it worked like a charm. Stuck with it for a couple years before I switched to Arch, have been Arch ever since. One of the reasons I switched to Arch was:
>allows you to start with a distribution that doesn't come with anything but what's required for the system to run and lets you install only what you need.

>>7853
A secret 3rd option! The media frame plasmoid with a transparent background and this image

>>7854
Completely missed that lol, it's a funny programming meme

>>7858
Works on my computer.
It's hard to say what caused it. For >>7859 maybe it was the default video driver causing issues, or because it was wayland instead of xorg or whatever who knows somehow didn't cooperate with the graphics driver for that specific computer.
The fact that Linux works at all is nothing short of a miracle for how many drivers volunteers have written for compatability with all sorts of different hardware. There's so much obscure hardware I've found that somehow had a Linux driver written by someone that worked.

I've used the same Linux Mint install for many many years, but I have to admit even I've had some stability issues lately. One was a Linux kernel update that seemed to regress a fix for my bluetooth driver. I don't think using a different distro would solve this one for me though, my options are either wait for a fix or downgrade my kernel. I'm just waiting it out since I know they're aware of the sudden regression.
My computer also seems to crash overnight if I leave Firefox running for days on end while I'm not even using my computer. This wasn't a thing a few months ago. I don't use my desktop that often so I decided to just close my browser when I'm not using it. The best option is probably just to move away from Firefox, but I don't know where to go. I hate all the options and I will never ever use Chr*mium based browsers.

>>7861
No wojak images allowed on kissu FYI.

>>7863
Didn't know! I'm new here. I read the rules and it didn't say anything but maybe I missed it T-T

I think it goes under the "dont post ugly images" unwritten rule. Post cute images!

>>7865
ohh oki! have cute computer meme instead ^_^

>>7866
Isn't this still a wojak variant, despite it being all dolled up and cutified or whatever?

>>7859
>>Photoshop
Is that using wine?

Yes it is.
https://github.com/Gictorbit/photoshopCClinux

>>7867
Is it? Regardless it's cute so it's allowed afaik >:c

>>7867
I recognize it, its the low test male one

>>7867
Yes, it's twinkjak. This guy just wants to get (You)s.

>>7858
Question regarding Trinity. I am trying to figure out how to have my browser's (Firefox and Chromium) windows match the theme of the rest of TDE. And I saw through the F&Q that this is done through gtk-tqt-engine. But I've tried that and for some reason it tells me that it doesn't exist in any of the repos including Trinity's. Is this the correct way to do this or is the F&Q outdated?
Also I am using Linux for the first time, so I am still kind of a newbie.

>>7873
Welcome to the cult of IBM and Gnome refusing to play nice with others. GTK4 pretty much broke all attempts to make GTK stuff play nice with non-GTK stuff.

You can edit userchrome if you're using firefox to kind of get it close. But you'll still have to deal with the ugly 1 pixel gap if you don't run status bar+buttons or the ugly over sized buttons if you do.

>>7873
>>7874
You can find an overview and way to manually do it here: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Uniform_look_for_Qt_and_GTK_applications

But don't expect it to continue working for more than a year or two if you're lucky.

>>7874
That fucking sucks. Is there any way to go back to GTK3 if I am on Fedora?
And what about what this userguide mentions here for qt5?
https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/User_FAQ

>>7875
I'll follow this too, thanks.
>But don't expect it to continue working for more than a year or two if you're lucky.
I don't mind, I'll just tinker around with it again the year it fucks up and get it working again (hopefully). As long as it doesn't last only a few weeks or months, then that would suck.

>>7874
>>7876
Oh yeah, and I forgot to ask. What does IBM have to do with that specific change involving GTK? I understand Gnome being involved since GTK is involved with the GNOME project, but where does IBM fit into this (aside from Red Hat funding GNOME)?

>>7873
you can go to "customize toolbar" in firefox and turn on the title bar, it doesnt fix like everything but at least the window decorations should look how they're supposed to

>>7877
GNOME is practically a Red Hat project, most of their funding and manpower come from Red Hat. IBM owns Red Hat, thus having defacto control of GNOME. GNOME practically controls GTK, making GTK only really play well with GNOME as of GTK 4

>>7873
I don't know how it is for DEs, but with i3wm I get an option to the WM's title bar instead when I right click on the title bar, maybe see if that exists?

>>7876
>That fucking sucks. Is there any way to go back to GTK3 if I am on Fedora?

I don't know. But this is why I use Gentoo and the BSDs. Both either give me the ability to build a package from source or provide a pre-built binary that supports GTK2 or GTK3 instead of shipping GTK4 only. On my computers I stick to GTK2 whenever possible when using Qt as a build time option isn't possible. The only think on my system that require later versions of GTK is Firefox.

>>7877
GTK version 1 and 2 were community projects. They were intended to provide a way to do GUI applications on desktop without being tied to a large company project like Qt. When GTK was invented it was for the GIMP project originally and is was badly needed because the other graphical toolkits on UNIX OSs were either bound to a license that wasn't favorable or unmaintained (or we didn't have source code at all).

Red Hat was always an IBM project and they showed up throwing around a lot of money in the late 90s-early 2000s. They took over the GTK/Gnome project and introduced a lot of other stuff into the Linux ecosystem. So Gnome/GTK2 was the last 'real' release of the project. Version 3 was the start of the direction of the project (and the linux 'standards' through freedesktop) being corporate controlled by paid developers that started to dictate to users and forcing things upon them. They started going away from the POSIX idea of doing one thing and doing it well. Taking away choice. Instead of being able to modify and replace things easily you were now required to run a lot of software to get basic features. Simple things like using gksu/gksudo to launch GUI applications as root user got replaced with a spider web of stuff reliant on things like polkit, dbus, systemd etc. Vendor lock-in in all but name.

Which is why there was such a radical change with Gnome from version 2 forward. Gnome 2 was what most users would expect from a desktop with community plug-ins for anything you wanted and the ability to work with most anything else released for any UNIX. Gnome 3/4 dictates how you're using the computer and won't even allow you to do basic things like modify how windows or the desktop works. Badly copying other systems (mainly OS X) while taking away the ability to change colors/icons/behavior or even basic stuff like having background application icons displayed on your taskbar. But they weren't content with doing it with the Gnome desktop they eventually started enforcing more of this kind of thing on to applications using the toolkit. Which is why so many have opted to port over to Qt. Which is what most of them were trying to avoid using in the first place (if they're old enough to have been around in the 90s-2000s era).

So mainly none of this stuff plays well together because you have two large companies controlling both toolkits looking to enforce their own things upon users. Qt is just not as bad right now because it's designed to build applications over multiple platforms (mainly Windows and UNIX) where GTK is no longer concerned about anything but Linux (they regularly do things that breaks support on other UNIX OSs like the BSDs).

The main reason modern GTK/Gnome is bad is the last bit. Since getting them working on distros that don't use systemd and its various sub-systems is a huge pain in the ass. Last I checked it requires 100s of patches to get working on the BSDs and almost as many on a variety of Linux distros bundling an init other than systemd and/or not using things like polkit, dbus etc.

We've seen this huge change in Linux over the past decade and a half where long standing ways of doing things are now deemed not-secure and then getting replaced with mountains of hacky code. For example on the desktop if you needed to mess with partitions through a GUI you used to click an icon, which would launch a password prompt for your password, which would then open the application using sudo/su. This was said to be not secure and troublesome because of the password prompt. Instead it was replaced with a ton of code that's harder to audit that automagically does a bunch of crap to see if you're in wheel group then opens the application that way. But it requires a bunch of daemons running at all times as root all of the time (or what is basically root (suid)). One is not really better than the other (I argue the new way is far worse and more prone to being exploited) but if you point that out prepare for the downvotes, ban, post deleted, bunch of people parroting the same lines etc. Since the new way not only has paid developers behind it. It also has a dedicated PR team.

Linux is now where Windows was 10-20 years ago. I expect it to become more and more like Windows in the coming years. We're watching the platform become locked down in real time and more importantly vendor locked. IBM effectively already has control over the direction of the project. They control userspace now and they're one of the primary companies funding kernel development. Although the kernel is a whole other set of problems. Last year NATO got them to ban a ton of contributors simply for being born in the wrong country.

>>7894
Oh and it's important to keep in mind that when people say
>it's IBM
or
>it's Microsoft
or even
>it's Apple
that you should auto-correct the above in your mind as:
>It's the military industrial complex
or maybe
>It's the Government.

UNIX was an invention of the military just like the internet (and most all networking e.g. POTS landlines and radio). The software is a matter of national security. Red Hat's #1 customer is the US military. They ship them Linux for general purpose use. But you'll see a hodgepodge of stuff in the field. Since to them it's all the same in so far as all major OSs and hardware falls under their control by default.

There was a brief window in time from about the mid-1970s through the 80s and 90s when there was some relative 'freedom' in software development and exchange of information on the internet. This is simply not the case any longer. Organizations like the FSF and W3C have sold out and failed us. FSF might make some noise from time to time but it has pretty much failed on every front for the last 35 or so years I've been watching it. Which shouldn't be a surprise because it was spawned out of a US university which again falls under military/Government control since that's where the funding comes from. If the military tells them to jump they ask "how high?". Stallman's cushy office is paid for with US tax payer money. You can not expect a real resistance from such people. The GPL was an alright attempt to troll the industry and use copyright laws against it. But in the long run it has been a failure. People 'steal' the code with no repercussions and the code itself doesn't really matter. It's more about who controls who can and can not modify the code. Well that and who has the resources to host the code. You could write the most amazing OS and applications to go with the world has ever seen but no one will use it if you don't have the bandwidth to send it to them. They'll also refuse to use it if everyone they know and some authority figure claims there is a virus inside or that it is not secure. Since they're too lazy to audit it themselves.

The Government grants dictate development. Which is why right now you see such a push to re-write everything in Rust and release it under a non-GPL license. Since the Government is willing to give away tons of paper to people that are willing to do that for them.

Linux is no longer a system for hobbyists. It doesn't care about them and people that still care about it can't contribute unless the select few that control access allow them to. You can hack away on some fork on some isolated repo somewhere but you'll be hard pressed to get more than 5 other people to run it much less contribute and help with it.

What we're seeing right now with the recent users running away from "evil" Microsoft over to the various Linux distros reminds me of what happened on the web late 90s-early 2000s. People were pissed about Microsoft's attempt to do vendor lock-down of the web through IE. So they ran over to Google when Chrome came out for a browser and webmail because google promised them it'd "do no evil". We've all seen how well that worked out. Same goes for people like me that were early adopters of Mozilla Firefox. I personally wasted years on xhtml and related web standards only to watch it all get thrown away because the W3C got bought out by Google. So now we have javascript everywhere and DRM on the web instead of an open system. Oh and our browsers are biggest exploits waiting to happen than they ever were with ActiveX, Flash and Java applets.

Don't get fooled by promises of freedom and choice. Do enjoy things being better right now compared to whatever you came from. I'm just saying do not expect them to remain this good. Linux ecosystem has been in such decline lately I sometimes pine for the days when I had to spend weeks getting a modem working or risking frying my CRT from configured X11. At least back then it was truly a "free" OS.

Younger people wouldn't believe the kind of real freedom we used to have with personal computers. A C64 was real freedom. You had the freedom to do anything including running a command that would kill your monitor and maybe your entire system. When it broke you got to keep the pieces. If you were willing to learn you could probably put them back together again. You could also war dial and access all sorts of classified information in those days without having to worry about the Feds kicking in your door. A lot has changed.

Anyway if you ever want answers like this simply follow the money. They aren't hiding where most of it is coming from. The idols of FOSS are all sell outs for the most part. There is a reason why Linus is a multi-millionaire and it isn't because regular people sent him donations.

>>>/amv/11346
Go CachyOS, it's the easiest one to set up and get gaming on.

>>7897
Noted. I've been meaning to try out Arch since I managed to successfully install it in a VM but I see that Cachy is based on Arch.

>>7898
lovely foot shapes

>>7898
Use base Arch, derivatives are gay. Anything you can do on "CachyOS" you can do on base Arch. It's not even hard to setup a Linux OS to game on now-a-days.

>>7894
>>7896
Thanks for the rant, rant anonymous. All one can do is worry about the inevitable non-free free future and lie in wait... or maybe create their own OS and an ecosystem that works on it. Can't trust nothing these days. Personally, I'm a "create it yourself" person too, but when it comes to stuff like a whole ecosystem I'm reluctant. That's a lot of things to create on your own.

>>7900
Yeah I don't know why all these soft forks get popular then vanish just as quickly. I guess it's marketing. There is no good reason to use a distro like that because all they're doing is minimal kernel tweaks which you could easily do yourself by building your own kernel from source.

Now if a fork uses its own new package manager or offers its own repo with different build options then maybe it's worth using. Or one that does something that replace major things in userspace with something else (e.g. s6 instead of systemd) which would require doing the above then yeah it can be worth using. It's its own project at that point.

But a lot of these distros like Ubuntu, CatchyOS, Mint and others are simply the base distro (Debian, Arch) and its repos with some lazy stuff config wise slapped on top. Which becomes a huge headache to debug especially when you have an LTS release based on another LTS release. You're just setting yourself up for pain.

Gaming on Linux isn't even hard now. Grab any multilib distro, install steam, install wine and maybe a helper for it. Done.

>>7902
>Ubuntu, CatchyOS, Mint
Putting these together feels a bit disingenous. One of them is a year old. The other two are twenty years old. Ubuntu has a ton of things preconfigured that makes it just work for people because they have a massive team working on actually making shit just work, but it also has a ton of nonsense people don't want so Mint is the compromise between Debian (too difficult for the average beginner) and Ubuntu (too corporate).

>>7903
>Putting these together feels a bit disingenous.
It's not. They're all the same thing. As I already stated and explained.

>>7903
>(too difficult for the average beginner)
And yes I do mean this, beginners do not want to manually set up a bunch of repositories just for their drivers.

>>7904
https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers#Debian_13_.22Trixie.22
This is too much for a beginner.

>>7905
Yes it's really hard for lazy dumb people with no reading comprehension to copy/paste or type in a few commands.

>>7906
Yes, I am glad we agree that Ubuntu and Mint are better recommendations than Debian for beginners.

>>7907
They're not. We don't agree. Stop pretending to be retarded.

These so-called newbies will just end up running into an error they can't fix which requires the same kind of manual intervention. Which will be even harder to debug because they're dealing with 2-3 more layers of BS now.

You know what they'll do? Re-install the entire OS for no reason when they could have fixed it with a simple config file+maybe updating. Or they'll run back to windows.

This only serves as a good example why catering to idiots is always a bad idea.

There's more guides for Ubuntu than Debian because Debian users are not treated with kiddy gloves and are expected to know how to do things.
Glad we continue to agree that the average beginner should use an idiot proof OS such as Ubuntu.

>>7909
It is not "an idiot proof OS". There are less guides for dumb fucks for Debian and OSs like Free/OpenBSD because USERS ARE EXPECTED TO READ THE MANUAL.

By catering to idiots you ruin both the underlying system and ecosystem for the idiots AND users that bother to read the manual. Every last issue with modern Linux can be traced back to
>we need to make it idiot proof
News flash: Idiots don't install an OS in the first place. Their friend/child/whoever they've paid does it for them or more likely they just use whatever came with whatever crappy hardware they purchased.

Every piece of technology I interact with on a daily basis has been dumbed down in an attempt to idiot proof it. All of it is now more frustrating to use, breaks more often and regularly requires more manual intervention to keep running.

Instead of encouraging idiocy and catering to retards you should shame them and encourage them to read instead.

The ONLY reason Ubuntu even got popular in the first place wasn't because it was
>easy to use!
it was the fact that they would ship you however many CDs you wanted of the software for free. Which was useful in a world where half the first world was still stuck behind a dial-up connection.

Look at Debian, Ubuntu and Mint and all the trouble it has caused. We now have possible contributors spread over three different projects. Maintaining at least 2-4 different releases at all times. All of which are incompatible with each other in undocumented ways. That's not even getting into backports, PPAs and all the other issues created by this unneeded split of effort.

But you claim this is a-okay because
>user can google and get support!
but what support do they get? Some stackoverflow post that's probably wrong and tells them to copy/paste commands or edit config files. Which is EXACTLY WHAT THE MAN PAGES TELLS THEM TO DO IF THEY'D BOTHERED TO READ THEM.

Works on my computer.
Anyways I am not trying to rile you up so I'll leave the conversation here as I don't expect us to come to an agreement.

Idiot proof software!

>>7911
you have just earned yourself a lifetime pass for the hamster thread

>>7878
>>7880
I'll try that, thanks.

>>7879
That makes sense, that means Fedora is also inadvertently owned by IBM too, right?

>>7881
I've considered moving on to both Gentoo and eventually BSD in the future, but for now I am using Fedora until I get comfortable to try out more advanced systems, whether it be distros like Gentoo or another OS system like the BSD family.

>>7894
>>7896
Genuinely, thank you for explaining most of this. This is the kind of stuff I want to know more of, especially the history (since I am admittedly kinda dumb when it comes to pure coding sometimes so history is closer to my forte, I am trying to improve, but I can't call myself good for the time being). It gives me added context and lets me understand how to navigate the landscape, even if what you're saying sounds pretty grim. I will admit I don't understand all of it, but I am hoping in time I will once I get more acquainted with Linux and even open-source systems as a whole.
Also admittedly yeah, I figured GNOME was bad, I kinda tried it out for a bit on my system and admittedly...I wasn't fond of it, which is why I switched to TDE, I found it more comfortable. KDE felt bloated and GNOME just felt off for me.
>Which is what most of them were trying to avoid using in the first place (if they're old enough to have been around in the 90s-2000s era).
Unfortunately not, I am 25, I also wasted too much of my early years in the wrong way when it comes to both computing and software. Didn't move to Windows until the late 2010s and I am only now trying Linux. Admittedly I wanted to fuck around with Linux MUCH earlier (as early as 2018ish), but I was using a partially fucked up laptop and I had frequently heard of compatibility issues with Linux, it wasn't until this year that I decided to buy an old Thinkpad and went ahead with trying out Linux. I also felt I wouldn't be good enough to navigate Linux and that I would fuck up in some astronomical way. Surprisingly, once I tried it out, I adapted better than I thought
>You can not expect a real resistance from such people.
That's one of the most disappointing things sadly. I expected the open-source community to better defend themselves, but all I see is pointless drama rather than defending their core tenants. It genuinely sucks.
>You can hack away on some fork on some isolated repo somewhere but you'll be hard pressed to get more than 5 other people to run it much less contribute and help with it.
I have to be honest, I think that's the most frustrating thing about everything nowadays. People prefer convenience over working on a common goal to actually get stuff done. If there are any projects it's usually done for anything other than being pure hobby, and the ones that do are usually a small number of passionate people who don't get enough contributors to help them so the project crashes and burns after a few months, or even years if it somehow survives that long.
>Oh and our browsers are biggest exploits waiting to happen than they ever were with ActiveX, Flash and Java applets.
I am curious, what's actually worse than all of those? I remember Flash and Java exploits were considered quite hellish back in the day (although, maybe it was a lot of commotion over nothing?), what could be worse?
Also I am curious, given the shit state of Firefox and Chromium-based browsers, is there any hope in something like Ladybird?
>Don't get fooled by promises of freedom and choice. Do enjoy things being better right now compared to whatever you came from.
To be honest, it seems to be kind of common that whenever I move on to something that seems better, I find out things are much worse than expected or that they've become much worse, just my luck. But still, I did kind of go into it with the assumption that things weren't quite as good as they once were. On one hand, sure. Proton support has made Linux more viable for things like video games that normally wouldn't work on Windows, but at the same time, it's evident that in other aspects it's become more corporate and restricted than before, which is a damn shame. One step forwards, two steps back.
I did consider moving over to BSD if things truly get Enshittified to the point of Windows 8 (and onwards) or MacOSX degrees, but at the same time, I fear that BSD might end up suffering something similar, so I don't know if there even will be a better option in the future.
Also, I apologize if anything I say sounds naive or ignorant, I am still a learner in most things.

>>7896
>>7914
Also should add, admittedly I misquoted one part, that part about my age was meant to be in reply to what you said about younger people not knowing the convenience of the freedom of the old days, but I misquoted that part. Just had to clarify that.

i use x-lite, which is a stripped down windows 10/11 'fork'.
If you combine a good firewall with any version of Windows though, like SimpleWall, then you can block out all telemetry. Just only allow firefox.exe and other processes to access the internet and windows itself can never phone home.