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File:C-1760322492346.png (303.83 KB,2154x880)

 No.38814

I guess I'll say a bit here, since it would get mods angry elsewhere. You see the situation online and think that the internet is too dangerous to be left alone with all the big careless corpos that let 'dangers' fester on their gigantic platforms that huddle people into algorithmically separated echo chamber, and then you conclude that we should ruin the experience of the web for everyone because of it. No more of this glorious platform that allows for less neurotypical people to enjoy each others' company from across the globe without the need for expensive trips. No, we can't have our little corners of comfort because of your political angst. I reject this completely, and instead I take the position that even if the political divide is bad for society, the way the internet allows our communications now is a much preferable alternative to allowing a retarded oligarchical feudalist society to develop because we can't be allowed to think for ourselves. I don't think there's anyone qualified enough for it, and even if there were I would use every ounce of power within me in such a system to make sure I kill that person just for trapping me within the confines I wish not to be contained by.

No, the proper response to the net developing the way it has is proper countermeasures against the giant corporations that control and allow these mainstream platforms to fester. Why should ordinary pleasant people like my /qa/ friends have their communications stripped away from them for these scumbags? That's something I'll never accept no matter how bad things get. We need to return to a net that's not dictated by algorithms, and instead directed by human-lead platforms.

 No.38816

File:The.Banished.Court.Magicia….jpg (243.13 KB,1920x1080)

oh guess I can post my post here instead of making a thread.

COPYPASTE TIME

You didn't need to/shouldn't have deleted all your posts from that /jp/ thread. I didn't actually read that thread apart from seeing the gist of people getting upset, which is what I expected from such a thread...

 No.38820

File:[Erai-raws] Uma Musume - C….jpg (302.57 KB,1920x1080)

>>38817
Uppity? Ugh...
My one post in the thread is telling someone that one word attack posts aren't conductive to a good atmosphere. Where once I would attempt to steer a thread in a positive direction I will instead let people drive them into the abyss since that's what people want. I guess I still managed to overstep.

If people haven't noticed I no longer moderate without reports active on a post and I struggle to post as much or participate in events either since I no longer feel camaraderie. I didn't touch the post of the guy rallying against the "liberal media" when previously I would have yanked it instantaneously. I've accepted that this is the kind of thing people want from the internet, even 2D imageboards ostensibly created to get away from such things.
I guess in the future I'll refrain from glancing over such threads at all in the future since I won't moderate them anyway.

 No.38822

File:1531816779853.gif (1.63 MB,500x280)

I guess what I got angry with was I somehow can't even say "kill everyone ITT" without that being labeled a /pol/ism.

 No.38824

I'm just too angry lately, sorry.

 No.38825

File:G0h_gcUbAAAUsy9.jpg (679.8 KB,1448x2048)

>>38820
I've been wanting to do more community focused things and I'd love if you joined some of the games more, but I can't really do everything and real life has caught up to me at times that makes some scheduling difficult. Also I guess it's more that I'm trying to learn JP really hard and so it's causing me to neglect the things around me so I'm sorry for not being there as much as I should be. Especially feel kuso about having my JP lessons scheduled over the stream recently, I did those over a month in advance so I'd not been thinking of them at all.

If you ever want to do something fun together as a group I'd be 100% up for it and lending you my full support over anything else. I'll make changes to my schedules in advance for it if I can. I've kinda been wanting to get back into OJ or Kissu Kart at some point if people are up for it, but it never seems like the best time. There's also this https://animemusicquiz.com/ I was thinking about playing with people here but was worried it'd be seen as too tacky and people wouldn't care for it because of that.

 No.38826

File:55bf7165a31a9fcce5cb2cc259….png (806.82 KB,1024x768)

>>38814
I have no desire to respond to this. My post was purely hypothetical, as was the thread, not a position I genuinely hold and would want to see come about. I even said it would not be a good thing for individuals of niche interests (like browsing Kissu). I don't know how much more overt i should have been to not garner such a hateful response...

>>38822
saying you wanted to kill me wasn't very nice. it wasn't very nice to imply i'm a norm either...

>>38820
>previously I would have yanked it instantaneously
it would have been for the best, had you. nothing good came of my post since so many people read into it things i did not intend and then that then engendered further kuso posts

>the guy rallying against the "liberal media"
it was just a blunt example of a userbase being against the decisions of an opaque authoritarian moderation scheme. It had nothing to do with my own political leanings... sigh...

It was the only example off the top of my head that clearly, and cleanly contradicted every single supposition of:
>websites that openly rule like a monarchy and don't pretend like they're pro-democracy, [that randomly enforce] their own will in certain situations they personally have no interest in seeing [is/would be better than the alternative]
>this would remove a lot of community tension
>people would willingly bow to potentially unfair moderation
>[people would] have less reason to feel treated unjustly.
>[if the owner bans XYZ], [XYZ] has no reason to stay and complain about their preference not being allowed
>[if the owner bans XYZ] not a single person still wanting to be a regular would want [XYZ] there

 No.38827

>>38826
>saying you wanted to kill me wasn't very nice. it wasn't very nice to imply i'm a norm either...
I was going to write a post like this at first, since the hypothetical sorta really annoyed me because it just reminds me of the current zeitgeist in government that's trying to bring about that exact scenario, but then I kinda thought that wasn't so much the spirit of the thread and tried to just brush off my anger with an angry Shizuka funpost that just had me being a little shit, not to be taken seriously...

 No.38828

i will NEVER forgive SLUTzuka and her heinous usage of those womanly charms

 No.38835

posting to see what >>>/jp/102419 is

 No.38836

what on earth are you people flipping out about

 No.38839

>>38836
The lack of recent incest has really taken a toll on our collective psyche.

 No.38845

File:1560212723161.jpg (181.2 KB,640x480)

>>38820
I'd genuinely like to have a conversation about this.
>I struggle to post as much or participate in events either since I no longer feel camaraderie
That is extremely disheartening and alarming to read. To me, this suggests that there is a problem with the community, seeing as I believe you've been here since the beginning. May I ask to what extent the other mods share your feelings regarding proper Kissu atmosphere?

My personal thoughts and worries are these:
If you exclusively moderate according to "what the people want", then what is the barrier that shields us from eventually turning into 4chan / social media, knowing that a designated site theme alone is not enough? What differentiates us as an altchan if the tolerance for certain bad behavior is allowed to increase with its popularity, what even is Kissu's purpose then?
My thinking is that we NEED you and the others to stir us in the right direction, to show us the atmosphere this place is supposed to have according to the people actually running it, or it will be just another chan the sort of which people originally came here to avoid. If I don't like the intended experience, I can still leave for other places, the way it should be with every site.
>I've accepted that this is the kind of thing people want from the internet
And you will never ever have the majority of people want anything else, we are just a group of people with different expectations for imageboards and I assume Kissu was made to actually realize those expectations, not ignore them to pander to the masses. Maybe I'm misunderstanding and Verniy and Berun have a completely different view on what this is supposed to be, I haven't gotten a feel for that yet.

I've just recently made a report with a wall of text and I'm aware that Kissu prefers to have Anons get nudged by posts such as "too green", which I agree is a way nicer alternative to banning for minor situations like someone not understanding yentexting yet, but I see it as flawed to rely on a community for anything more than that and especially if it starts to drift off into bullying.
Example: Judging by the official diagram, Vtubers are allowed on /jp/, yet you might as well consider the topic inofficially banned because Anons are allowed to make obviously malicious posts so long as they aren't outright telling someone to kill themselves. I specifically remember a hack refugee getting jumped for simply not knowing any better and the situation more or less having gotten treated as just another day at the office. This is just my opinion, but I think this invites way more trouble than to just outright ban Vtubers, or punishing the people who are obviously attempting to derail, whichever staff prefers - at the very least then there would be clear rules to follow, same way we know not to post Wojaks. This current system just encourages me to be my most obnoxious rule-conformant self whenever I see something I don't like, especially because it will just result in a slap on the wrist at worst. Who's to say people won't start doing the same for Shonen; Gacha; Loli, etc. at some point?

There are some people acting completely unreasonable, throwing around personal attacks because they're angered by other people's opinions, and sometimes those, too, get ignored despite getting reported. I know that insulting someone for no reason isn't necessarily against the rules, but I also know that at least you share my sentiment that this is childish and unnecessarily takes away from a good board experience, which is why I have trouble understanding the tolerance for such posts. To me it's not even about censoring certain topics, I just think people should be respectful and that's it, for everything else there's the Hide function.

On a different note: If current event threads aren't motivating enough for you, perhaps you could call for some creative collaboration or something like that if you ever feel like it. I think you were more on the creative side, so things like a group image with images from a thread might be a fun distraction to have every now and then. I'd also be willing to try and help out with some video stuff if the need ever arises.

>>38825
>Kissu Kart
Let's go...

 No.38846

>>38820
I don't report often because I assumed posts like that would get deleted eventually, but maybe I should start getting a little more trigger happy from now on.

 No.38848

>>38816
>You didn't need to/shouldn't have deleted all your posts from that /jp/ thread.
I felt that it was better to have deleted them than have other people read them, misinterpret them, and that then spawn more kuso posts. The "internet monarchy" post pushed me in that direction. The "[XYZ] has no reason to stay" part in particular. I suppose it was my own fault for breaking the golden rule and being serious in an unserious thread.

 No.38849

File:ff8c7744c259f76a7a1c82e701….jpg (419.04 KB,1108x1477)

>>38845
Feel free to ignore my post. I am simply a long-standing individual of occasional influence and disrepute and these are simply my thoughts.

>To me, this suggests that there is a problem with the community
I share their view of alienation, but I disagree with this conclusion. It is not a matter of the community at large being at fault, but rather the expansion of the community being of a separate lineage from that of Kissu. Kissu stemmed from a particular moment in time on 4/qa/, and every expansion and alteration of Kissu has meant further divergence from what 4/qa/ was, unavoidably so. This is not necessarily a bad thing. It is not intrinsically bad to cater to a wider audience, and provide more breathing room for other topics by splitting boards. But it fractured the unified identity of /qa/ and created a Kissu identity. That Kissu identity is not a unified one, in my opinion; there are now wide gaps in places to the extent that /jp/ doesn't feel like /amv/ and /amv/ doesn't feel like /qa/. It's not reflective of the community being poor that someone might feel alienated, feeling more aligned to the previous ideals of /qa/ than to the current community which has in large part grown up around Kissu, but was not a part of former 4/qa/.

>proper Kissu atmosphere
You will get a different answer from as many people as you ask. I will refrain from using names to prevent misattributing their beliefs, but the major through-lines of moderation thought are as follows:
¥A calm, and relaxed atmosphere more similar to Kakashi-nenpo. This thinking is the embodiment of "take it easy" and "funpost in fun threads, be serious in serious threads". This thinking would require a more heavy-handed approach to moderation.
¥A more chaotic environment similar to what 4/qa/ was like; dueling beliefs in a fast-paced environment. This thinking leans towards much more tolerant moderation, permissive of what the first might wish to remove on-sight.
¥An arbitrary environment defined not by what individual users might want, but what is "best" for the site overall. This thinking leads to a paternalistic form of moderation that desires a deferential environment. It can be the most heavy-handed, but also is the most inscrutable and difficult to understand.

For large or important decisions these thoughts balance each other, but on an individual post level they largely don't come into play at all expect in abnormal circumstances.

>If you exclusively moderate according to "what the people want", then what is the barrier that shields us from eventually turning into 4chan / social media
This is a line of thinking that runs up against the reality that what might be desired is a viewpoint shared by a shrinking number of people. A website that does not change with its userbase is one which is fated to shrink and die. It's unavoidable if there is not a critical mass of users to sustain the website. The fact that some users are individually identifiable is proof that we are not at a critical mass. To survive, Kissu must grow, and to grow means accepting change. If not growth, new users are at least required in great enough numbers to stem the loss of older users.

Those sharing the view that they would like Kissu to be a more "take it easy" place feel particularly at odds with this reality due to the "homogenization of the internet". That is, everywhere feeling like everywhere else because foreign shibboleths (wojakisms, 4chanisms, teenspeak, etc.) are tolerated most places, which dilutes the individual culture of any given website. Going against this trend is possible, but very difficult. It's even more difficult when you consider a Kissu-native population. How would you guard against new foreign shibboleths if you are not exposed to them to know they come from someplace else?

More difficult is how do you moderate them in such a way as not to alienate new users, but also encourage their assimilation? That requires a more hands-off, community-based approach. If you were to delete every template post, every allusion to a wojakism, every shitpost... you would inevitably alienate many users. It may be difficult to understand, but one thing to keep in mind is that it's very possible for a user who is known to make good posts in one area, might slip up and post something someone else would consider bad someplace else. How do you handle situations like that? On net, they're a positive influence, but would you ban them for an occasional reference that might be hostile to an overarching philosophy of Kissu, but is not in and of itself hostile to other users?

It's a very difficult balancing act. That balancing act requires reports to know common sentiment, and without reports it would mean imposing a view that could end up being user-hostile.

>we are just a group of people with different expectations for imageboards and I assume Kissu was made to actually realize those expectations
Yes, but again, how do you retain and assimilate the users you want? It is impossible to just put out a calling card and suddenly have the exact userbase you want. They have to find you. That's another area Kissu has struggled with, traditionally being averse to advertising itself and instead relying more on word-of-mouth and the occasional wanderer who finds Kissu another way (typically through meta sites, like GET trackers, and imageboard directory sites).

>especially if it starts to drift off into bullying.
The line between community moderation and gatekeeping is fine indeed. I have no rebuttal.

(1/2)

 No.38850

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>>38845
cont.

>Vtubers are allowed on /jp/, yet you might as well consider the topic inofficially banned because Anons are allowed to make obviously malicious posts
I agree. This is one of those old versus new user distinctions, and not necessarily old-to-Kissu or new-to-Kissu. Older otaku types tend to see vtubers as a cynical cashgrab that use the appearance of anime escapism, but which in actuality devolve into e-celeb worship and low quality discussion. I wish it was not the case that Anonymous was so hostile that they would not berate others even for simple "offenses" like posting a vtuber, but alas... Many meta arguments have been had over this point in the past. The compromise has been that vtubers are allowed, but that doesn't mean users have to like it.

>clear rules to follow
This runs up against the third strain of moderation thought. Its their belief that having written rules leads to meta rule-lawyering and inflexibility with regards to being able to moderate things they see as harmful to Kissu. Many meta arguments were had over this in the past as well.

>sometimes those, too, get ignored despite getting reported
This bothers me as well. The position maintained by moderation, as I have heard it, is that it is not worthy of deletion or action if the post goes ignored (i.e. the thread moved on without derailment) or occurred too long ago. Make of that what you will. I certainly do not agree with this de facto policy.

(2/2)

 No.38867

>>38845
You shouldn't be disheartened or alarmed by it.
It's just that instead of being a cultural enforcer like in previous years, the overwhelmingly negative mod feedback (including disagreements with other mods) has demonstrated to me that I was forcing things I shouldn't have and creating an artificial culture to benefit only myself. Things should be more democratic, even if democracy goes against my desires.
If the choice is that I enjoy things more or 200 other people enjoy things more, obviously the latter is the correct choice. I'm an outlier with opinions that differ too much from anyone else, much less entire communities. Lately my reactions/opinions on kissu threads/posts make me feel more like a dad scolding kids than a person among peers and once that separation is there you can't get the old feeling back, it's like waking up from a dream. Nothing actually changed on the outside, just a personal realization.
I don't really have the motivation to answer more in depth and answer specific questions, but maybe I will later...

 No.38876

File:[SubsPlease] Yasei no Last….jpg (293.84 KB,1920x1080)

Guess I'm feeling well enough to answer stuff.

>May I ask to what extent the other mods share your feelings regarding proper Kissu atmosphere?
The other guy did a good job of answering that. I'm the guy that wants things peaceful and harmonious like the rose-tinted halcyon days, at least in threads created to be that way or /secret/.

>what is the barrier that shields us from eventually turning into 4chan / social media, knowing that a designated site theme alone is not enough? What differentiates us as an altchan if the tolerance for certain bad behavior is allowed to increase with its popularity, what even is Kissu's purpose then?
Nothing, really. The needle has already moved a fair distance in that direction if you want my opinion, but that's what people like. I don't want to be some despot going against everyone else, and that's how I was seen. I can only go by reactions, reports or meta posts and I haven't seen any complaints about the change in atmosphere. It's the opposite; people seem to be enjoying themselves and posting more. Are they posts I like? Not necessarily, but my job as mod isn't to remove posts I dislike.
Kissu's purpose? I'm not sure. To be a place that people enjoy posting on? I'm probably not in the right mind to answer this. I guess previously I would answer something about return to sincerity and refuge from the wider internet and stuff.

As for the vtuber thing, it was mostly if not entirely 4chan refugees that were overtly aggressive in that one vtuber thread you're talking about. We really didn't know what to do with a surge of people that needed a place to post. The plan was to give people time to acclimate and adjust instead of outright deleting or banning them. I think I remember telling people to settle down in that thread, but I could be wrong. It was hard to keep track of everything during those days of 2000 daily posts.

>I know that insulting someone for no reason isn't necessarily against the rules, but I also know that at least you share my sentiment that this is childish and unnecessarily takes away from a good board experience, which is why I have trouble understanding the tolerance for such posts.
I can't just moderate based on my own thoughts, but yes I do share that opinion. I don't know why people enjoying being angry and antagonistic on the internet so much, but that's the default. People are flawed creatures that propagate an endless cycle of misery. It turns out that such things are fantastic for user retention and engagement, so nearly every website and community is built around it.

>On a different note: If current event threads aren't motivating enough for you...
It's more that the atmosphere has changed too much to be enjoyable to me. In the seasonal stream last week I had to tell people to knock it off with /pol/ stuff and that's how I feel with the general atmosphere of kissu's gaming events these days. I'm quite particular when it comes to my escapism, but I won't barge into someone else's event and demand they change things to appease me. I'm just one person, though, as kissu events have been really strong this year. Ultimately, I don't think I can relate to other people unless there's artificial restrictions placed on speech and behavior to create a false reality of us sharing similar values.

>perhaps you could call for some creative collaboration or something like that if you ever feel like it.
I've done a terrible job when it comes to judging what events people would participate in this year so I'm taking a break on starting anything. That's a good idea for someone else to do, though. Halloween is coming up.

 No.38877

>>38876
>I guess previously I would answer something about return to sincerity and refuge from the wider internet and stuff.
I don't think kissu's lost this though.

 No.38881

File:34056408.79999995_3344964.….jpg (652.51 KB,1571x1819)

>>38876
>Ultimately, I don't think I can relate to other people unless there's artificial restrictions placed on speech and behavior to create a false reality of us sharing similar values.
I had this thought myself before, that I can't relate to or connect with people that don't share the same high bar of cultural values I do. But, in time I've come to realize that there's people who have their downsides and (quite valuable) upsides, and even if they seem like they should be the exact kind of people based on my value system to not partake in certain parts of culture, they do. So I'm left with a conundrum of do I just give up on everything, or try to drop my barriers a bit and be more open minded to the thought processes/values of others for the sake of developing a bit of camaraderie. I went with the latter, because it just feels better to be friendly than it does to be judgemental.

Maybe I'm not the best one to try and spread this message because I yell too much at those I actually care about when I have a disagreement and it makes me come off as aggressive and mean. I'm trying to fix that habit alongside the trying to be more open because both really do me harm in the long run.

 No.38882

File:EoFc6bgVoAA-eg0.jpg (929.44 KB,3780x2362)

>>38876
>It's more that the atmosphere has changed too much to be enjoyable to me.
I haven't really noticed much of a change in atmosphere in my 4 years of posting here daily and I still enjoy my time on kissu, although that might be because the recent /pol/ stuff or whatever happens in threads I have no interest in reading.

As for the gaming events, assuming you mean the Touhou ones, they were originally hosted on 4/jp/, and with 4chan up again I'm not sure how many of the players still browse kissu regularly enough to assimilate into the culture. It feels like there are more people participating in the Touhou game events than there are regular posters here, and the atmosphere does indeed feel different too.

 No.38883

>>38845
>what is the barrier that shields us from eventually turning into 4chan
There is none. This and every other altchan are ruled by mods who get triggered by random things and drive away the people who post them, just like 4chan mods. They may be more aligned with your own view of what is good fun and what is toxic and upsetting, but they also are more likely to see the posts that inevitably don't mesh with their own outlook so the net effect is pretty much the same.

>If I don't like the intended experience, I can still leave for other places
And that's exactly why those sites are perpetually stuck as extended friend groups.

>>38877
It definitely has become more accepting of outside influence than before. The internet hikki faction that wants to pretend like nothing after 2018 happened holds significantly less sway than it did a couple years ago. I think this is necessary for the site to survive and even more necessary for it to thrive, but I doubt the shift in attitude will ever be complete.

 No.38886

>>38876
>I can only go by reactions, reports or meta posts and I haven't seen any complaints about the change in atmosphere.
I've been in Kissu since pretty much since the start but was never a part of the 4/qa/ it grew out of, or of 4/jp/. I'd refrained from saying anything about the changes I'd seen after the whole 4chan debacle because of that. "If the mods aren't interfering then maybe it's just culture I wasn't a part of", was my mindset.
But really, I liked the old kissu with single digit posts per day; when I could read every single post, when everyone was fun posting and even the serious posts weren't /pol/ posts or much of anything that related to the bad parts of real life. I don't like the constant real life talk going on right now. I feel an atmosphere of hostility in the current Kissu which I don't remember being in the old Kissu.
I might be in the minority in this, but I don't like the influx of Touhou posts on /jp/ either. There's so much of it you could create a /2hu/ with them.
I don't like /amv/ either, Kissu isn't one for dedicated anime threads in a dedicated anime board. I'm glad the idea to archive the seasonal anime thread was not put into play, because there would've been no where else to discuss seasonal anime. The seasonal anime threads on /amv/ are usually all dead, it's one anonymous making the thread and then there's rarely any posts in them.
It used to be that you'd make a /jp/ fun post and that post would be used as the de-facto thread for that anime, but posts don't last as long on /jp/ anymore (partly the reason /amv/ was created). /amv/ is really just /v/, not much /am/ activity.
I understand that this is a result of there being a lot of people in a shared space; the more the people, the more likely they are to disagree, be hostile, or even agree on posts that I would deem "not the Kissu I know", but I don't know what's the Kissu I know anymore.
Sorry for the rant. Thought I'd let my opinion be known if we're talking opinions on Kissu.

 No.38893

>>38886
>I feel an atmosphere of hostility in the current Kissu which I don't remember being in the old Kissu
The relaxed atmosphere where anons could talk about whatever without provoking any senseless hostility is one of kissu's greatest appeals.

 No.38894

I haven't forgotten that I still need to reply, sorry for the wait, it always takes me a few days for things I consider important.

 No.38895

File:G2zt7WmaAAEmO60.jpg (1.2 MB,2000x1655)

>>38886
>But really, I liked the old kissu with single digit posts per day; when I could read every single post
I didn't, and kissu has never been this slow, not since pre-migration /qa/ in early 2019 when kissu was just a holdout for if something bad happened. I've bitched and moaned at Verm every time we've been under triple digits, which hasn't been a thing since like 2022, even. Right now we're sitting a an average of 200 posts a day, not that crazy and we've been at this activity plenty of times before. It's not at all a hard number to keep up with and nor should you feel the need to. It's better when you haven't seen everything and can still be surprised by something new in the future.

pic related: it's you after I take you out back for even suggesting that would be a good thing

 No.38896

I think of /amv/ as a collection of /qa/ threads. It is doing a good job at managing speed.




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