VTubers are still 3DPD, but them hiding beside a 2D façade somehow tricks people into thinking they're something completely different. Don't let yourself be fooled.

gn propaganda to desensitize pure jp netizens towards the latest 3DPD infiltration attempt into otaku culture

I've always felt very left out with vtubers, it popped up overnight one day with the exception of kizuna ai and some of those early ones and seemingly exploded in the same instance. I am the opposite and don't feel as judgmental towards ecelebs, while they can have obsessed viewers they seem to stick to their own spaces much more

vtubers are simulacra, anime girls only in image, but not in any (ironically) 'real' sense. the sort of value anime girls have as 'pure' images unfeasible in reality has been appropriated by real girls through live2d image to emulate the appeal that only a fictional girl could 'really' give. this can also be seen in the substantial influence anime has had on 'e-girls' and 'femboys' as internet erotica aesthetics, and may be analogous to the '2.5d' appeals of maid cafes and idols. the otaku rejection of reality has become so generally widespread (online) that real people appropriate the aesthetics of idealized fiction both as a way of piloting an idealized image of oneself, and as a method of hijacking the appeal that fiction has despite that appeal only being possible due to it being fiction.
(i'm realizing now that this is just a verbose version of what >>152732 said -_-)

Ecelebs and their fans keep to their own circles, and outside of the occasional reference you can forget they exist. Vtubers on the otherhand are pushed everywhere. Even if you're only tangentially interested in anime and otaku things you've likely seen them crop up more than a few times, and even if you're not you've seen someone post a clip in lieu of a reaction image. You're combining the worst of fans with 'simp' culture, and because it's equivalent to anime in their eyes they use that as an excuse to shove it everywhere. If you thought Touhou was bad overtaking general anime discourse in the late 2000s then this is 10x worse as there's no exhausting the endless drama and content vtubers as a whole shit out.

And this is before getting into the insult they are to otaku culture.
Idolshits are bearable because they at least keep to their own sphere by nature of being 3DPD, insufferable fans but not nearly as invasive. Vtubers are still 3DPD but hide behind a marketable 2D face and farm money from fans desperate for their oshi's attention. It's a costume for the person behind it and cannot be separated, because of this they die when they retire. Contrast this with glorious 2D. the character is independent from her seiyuu and continues to exist long after the source material ended. Any relationship between you and a Vtuber is always going to be unhealthy and parasitical just as it would be for a real 3DPD streamer monopolizing your attention. A relationship with your 2D waifu is leagues healthier in comparison.

I HATE ALL OF THEM

>>152731
vtubers are basically wrestling for weeaboos (moreso than wrestling is)

>>152759
Fuck you for being right.

All of the above, plus the culture surrounding them is entirely based around what I assume are one-off jokes they made or donating money. I also dislike how Vtuber fans genuinely believe they go hand in hand with anime or other normal otaku stuff, and how Boorus are spammed with fanart even holding the attention of otherwise great artists who seem to be incapable of drawing anything but Vtubers.

>>152754
I think Live2D or whatever it's called is responsible for the surge in popularity and for sculpting what they look like today. Kizuna etc were much more like anime or 3D animated idols because there was a boundary between the identity of the person behind the avatar and the character herself, with each video being produced and released one by one rather than a livestream format where there's fewer layers between the VA and viewer.

>>152757
Yeah I have to say the biggest reason I don't like idols and their ilk is that their fans are just unbearably annoying in specific ways that won't contain themselves to their communities.

To me personally, everything depends on the content. I really enjoy watching Mario from time to time for his Touhou runs and the little bit of insight into doujin culture he provides during music streams or party games he plays with other creators. I say "little bit" because I don't understand Japanese and have to manually translate certain sections that I assume might be interesting. I compare this to intriguing posts or creative endeavours on Japan-focused imageboards, though I am also shielded from any potentially annoying community interactions that might be going on with the chat, which I never translate. Either way, the Vtuber model in this case is just a playful little addition to the content.

Even if the creator is female, I don't mind Vtubers so long as the model is just an addition to otherwise interesting content that isn't designed to encourage "simping" or tries to invade an unrelated space, though I am aware that we are most likely talking about the <0.1% here.

>>152766
Slapping a live2d avatar over your video is everything bad about obtrusive facecam overlays without any of the good.

idols are /jp/ culture

I think people are too addicted to getting at angry at things instead of focusing on their own interests which is far better for their health and enjoyment of life.

>>152763
>Boorus are spammed with fanart even holding the attention of otherwise great artists who seem to be incapable of drawing anything but Vtubers.
It's a shame, because some Vtuber designs are quite appealing. It's just that the person behind the mask and the culture surrounding them is cancer. If all the hololive characters were originally made as a manga or anime instead of Vtubers, I can imagine it would be quite enjoyable.

>>152824
I'd say their designs usually align more closely with gacha game characters (or, looking further back, to stuff like Vocaloid or even board/OS-tans) than what I'd expect from an anime/manga.
The design principles in the two are very different: most anime characters are created as iterations upon known archetypes, which help establish their role within the narrative and give viewers a preconception of what to expect from them; the Vtuber-type, on the other hand, are instead trying to be as distinctive as possible (usually through visual noise) so that they can stand out in an industry built around selling a character, and only a character.

I always had an interest in vtuber stuff since Kizuna AI clips got posted around but never ended up watching more than a few highlights. I like the manic energy the fanbases have making OC and whatnot, and as far as idols go it seems more honest to simp for fictional characters you implicitly cannot fuck than real idols. Might be a waste of time either way but I'm not one to talk. I imagine it must be hard to organize anything with vtuber friends though, "Sorry, my oshi streams that day"

>>152842
Basically the same with me. I can see the appeal of vtubers, but I just have zero interest in watching livestreams, whether of vtubers or anyone else. I like to watch videos (Youtube/anime/etc.) when I'm in the mood for them, and to be able to freely pause and take breaks while doing so, not be constrained by streaming schedules.

>>152780
I suffer from this, in addition to negativity, how do I fix this, I cannot take initiative

>>152759
Holy fuck lmao

>>152732
/thread

>>153515
Fight pessimism with pessimism.
Anger over others == letting them control you, live in your head, etc. If you don't want internet strangers getting the better of you, keep your cool, and soon it'll become second nature.

>>153515
I've never watched this TV show, but I try to remember this scene if I'm ever bothered by what someone else is doing.

>>152732
Shondo is a cool woman. Gura was decent. Idk what you're talking about. If a woman is borderline funny, that's already worthy of a fucking monument. You don't come by that very often. Saying that all women are the same as ignorant.

>>152763
>how Boorus are spammed with fanart
Speaking of boorus, whats up with Gelbooru shilling vtubers on their home page lately?

>>152732
You might as well say that anime girls are just 3D seiyuus hiding behind a 2D façade. Yeah, they're putting on a character there, but then that's true to at least some extent for most vtubers too.
Vtubers aren't 100% 2D (if such a thing is even possible or desirable... I suppose AI-generated content is as close as we have), but they do exist somewhere along the spectrum, alongside other edge cases like autobiographical manga or the virtual idol genre that vtubers evolved from.

>>159946
She's never going to be your friend. She doesn't know you exist. She talks trash about you when there isn't a webcam pointed at her.

>>159946
You had to bump it!
But, if I didn't already say it in this thread, I'd probably find vtubers interesting if they were roleplaying the characters.
Alas, a robot vtuber, octopus vtuber, dog vtuber, and 1000 year old vampire vtuber all behave as normal everyday humans and the only thing different is the way their live2D avatar jiggles.

My oshi I decided to stalk likes to speedrun Super Mario RPG and is crazy into thigh highs.

V tubers are just streamers with an avatar.

>>159949
Don't blame me, some other anon decided to bump the thread two hours earlier

>>159949
The only reason that became the case was because of the paradigm shift from videos to streaming. It's extremely difficult to maintain a persona for 4+ hours unless you have a lot of practice or you find it enjoyable. It's acting, and typically vtubers aren't cut from the same cloth as actors.

With videos it's much easier to maintain a persona because it's a controlled environment. You can edit, make retakes, develop props, add effects, write narratives, play sounds, et cetera, like a movie.
Moreover you have time and flexibility because of the long timeframes. You can take a break whenever you want. So even with 0 experience anybody can create a convincing character.

Streaming makes no such allowances. Everything is on the fly, in real-time, and it all depends on the acting skill, self-control, and stamina of the individual. Streams take about 4-6 hours on average and they must be done consistently on a weekly basis, on top of interacting with the chat. You can only prepare and control for so much. It takes a certain type of individual with sufficient training and talent to pull this off with their persona intact.

It's like interrogation. Success depends on control of the environment and the qualia of the interrogator.

So nobody bothers playing a 1000 year old vampire or they do it in some half-assed way. Or else they only mention it once in the introduction and never again lole

By the way streaming is entirely responsible for the entire degradation of the virtual youtuber scene into it's current form. It's why 4/vt/ even exists in the first place. What makes this humourous is Youtube videos remained at least somewhat relevant to this day and the center actually shifted to shorter-form TikTok videos which are even more gamefied.
If you don't believe me then consider the mass societal outrage over the Youtube age verification and the TikTok ban. Now compare it to whatever drama Twitch has.
See, the point is to get you looking in one way when you don't see it from the other.

By the way streaming is entirely responsible for the entire degradation of the virtual youtuber scene into it's current form. It's why 4/vt/ even exists in the first place. What makes this humourous is Youtube videos remained at least somewhat relevant to this day and the center actually shifted to shorter-form TikTok videos which are even more gamefied.
If you don't believe me then consider the mass societal outrage over the Youtube age verification and the TikTok ban. Now compare it to whatever drama Twitch has.

See, the point is to get you looking in one way when you don't see it from the other.

>>159943
Moneys. Because YOU weren't donating enough.

>>159982
>If you don't believe me then consider the mass societal outrage over the Youtube age verification and the TikTok ban. Now compare it to whatever drama Twitch has.
>See, the point is to get you looking in one way when you don't see it from the other
I straight up don't get what you mean. Maybe because I don't use twitch. Elaborate?

>>159981
>>159982
I dare you to delete one of them.

Pee, the point is to get you looking in one way when you don't see it from the other.

>>152754
eceleb fags are extremely more grating when they stick out of their holes. at least the vtuber fags are more cute dumb retard infantile and just post the 2D design with cute dumb retard exclamations, instead of posturing intellectualism over some egomaniac 3DPD fag/cunt whose death would improve the world