(also does anyone have the top-left image with the caption of "Your first year on 4chan" as Holo and I can't remember what Lawrence's caption was.

There's no need to marathon it unless you're really curious about it. You can just do as what I'm doing right now and watch an ep of the reboot and then an ep of the original later.

The merchant stuff is the best and only good part of the show, goy.

>>122877
Please save that last part for other places

>>122876
Oh, but you said you watched it for 6 hours now that I noticed. So you're almost done with S1 then? Which ep are you on right now?

>>122873
When was the last time you actually went to a miller to get your flour, or an apiarist to get your honey?
I'm sure you eat no exotic fruits because it would be terribly inconvenient to have to go on a shopping trip across multiple time zones whenever you run out.

>>122875
Thanks!

>>122876
Avoiding a dozen "to be continued!" ending things is immensely satisfying. Spacing out slow uneventful shows is good, but seeing stories all at once for overarching storylines really lets me enjoy it more. Seeing things "live" each week is ideal since you can talk to people and such (not that it was possible back then when this came out) but I really have to say that I prefer to marathon when it's possible.

>>122879
Maybe six hours was inaccurate. The last episode I watched was Episode 10 of S2. I guess I'm almost done. But, there's an OVA and a couple BD specials (those are very short).

>>122880
Medieval people had very limited food options unless you were a noble. It must've sucked.

It's one of my all time favorite anime. An exceptionally great adventure with one of my favorite romances contained within. The chemistry on display warms the heart and satisfies the mind. I think that romance gets a bad rap on kissu. Most of the examples provided normally against it are modern seasonal highschool ones that never advance their respective romances ever. A good romance can be one of the cornerstones for one's appreciation of an anime, like with Spice and Wolf. One aspect that I think can really separate out a good romance /qa/ and many others can appreciate compared to normal romcoms judged is the maturity of the characters. Both Holo and Lawrence are adults and act as such which certainly enhances one's ability (especially considering /qa/'s userbase) to connect with it. No childish misunderstandings without reason or painfully stupid arcs of forced conflict, the pitfalls that most highschool romances fall into in an effort to drive some sort of semblance of plot.

Outside of their romantic relationship, they're traveling partners in the merchant world. The two can't simply trek to Holo's homeland without procuring the additional funds necessary to survive it. As a result the entirety of their existence cannot be focused solely on doing romantic things, Holo involves herself in and aids Lawrence with his work as a merchant. The wise wolf being skillful at seeing through lies, possessing great strength, and being surprisingly cunning makes her an excellent partner for any merchant when it comes to negotiations. And throughout the story she certainly does aid Lawrence in bettering himself as a merchant. Leading him down the path to becoming extensively connected with many benefactors and receiving valuable jobs.

Through their reliance on each other's strengths and struggles throughout the journey the two come to understand and appreciate the other more, not just as trading partners, but as a couple. The setting of a feudal land with a strong church opposed to the existence of pagan gods puts the two through many troubles as well which are able to test the resolve of their relationship in the face of many adversarial encounters. In this one can find some of the strongest romantic moments like where Lawrence foregoes selling Holo and sacrifices a potential trade partner in what could have been the opportunity to make more money than in his wildest dreams, putting her over what's economical. With actual stakes and consequences to the actions the characters take, romantic moments like these feel all the more powerful. I could dive deep into talking about specifics, but I feel like I want people here to enjoy the remake telling the story to them for their first time.

Especially gratifying is that the relationship actually advances throughout the story, even culminating in the two having a daughter. To see actual progress I think makes a romance feel more genuine and gets the viewer more invested in the success of it. Meandering about with a herbivore male protagonist for hundreds of chapters turns into a chore at some point. Lawrence stands in contrast to this as he actively pursues Holo rather than simply being pulled around by her, which grants him great appeal as a lead in my eyes. Coupling this with the serious scenes in which Lawrence shows his courage to stick with Holo and their competence as a team, Spice&Wolf easily has my favorite pair in anime and I hope kissu comes to love them as much as I do.

>>122882
First of all, the "middle ages" describe a period of about a thousand years, and a large area.
There is no one way to describe it, except religiously, and even with that, there's variation.

I think the variation is a bit underestimated because with the opening of the Americas to Europe, and then with the introduction of so many foreign vegetables, fruits and spices, we completely lost track of the cuisine that was before. "Herbs" nowadays has a very different ring compared to what it used to mean. Wasabi is the cool thing. Horseradish is what your grandmother would use. (and even in the middle ages, pepper was incredibly popular with people, even if they couldn't afford to waste it by putting it into their food - that's what mustard was for).

There are some recipes from back then, and I heard that they aren't bad.

>>122883
>enhances one's ability (especially considering /qa/'s userbase) to connect with it
I don't think /qa/ has a lot of daters on it. My entire experience with adult romance is coworkers/family members saying "oh yeah, so and so is married now". I didn't date in high school either, but it was an inescapable part of the social fabric I was forced to be a part of.

I've never really gotten why people gush over Holo x Lawrence. They feel like they're better off with a platonic relationship to me. To me, the show is about economics and the romantic elements just get in the way of that.

>>122886
I don't mean connect in the way of relating to having a partner, but rather connect in relating to them as adults.

>>122887
I know, my point was that the dynamics of an adult relationship are more foreign to me than high school ones because there are none around me. Everyone either has a long-term partner they found in school, has been single forever, or just doesn't ever talk about their relationship status. I can relate to adult characters, but adult romances feel entirely fantastical.

>>122888
>I can relate to adult characters, but adult romances feel entirely fantastical
Good thing this is a fantasy show then.

Also, it's less about romance for me and more about appreciating the interactions between Holo and Lawrence and her spicy (ba dum tss) personality.

Did you know that www.spicy-wolf.com still exists by the way? It's not advertised in the reboot but it's still there.

>>122889
>appreciating the interactions between Holo and Lawrence
That's appreciating the romance....

>>122891
But it comes off as oi m8 cheeky banter most of the time.

>>122892
they say you should marry your best friend

You hear that, Anonymous? We're getting married.

>>122896
I look forward to raising two beautiful daughterwives with you.

I have finished it! (and it feels bad that it's over, but that's normal)
I'm going to take my time and break my review into multiple posts before reading the other posts in the thread so it doesn't possibly influence me.

Merchant Stuff and Lawrence

As I very subtlety hinted at in the OP, I don't like this stuff. Various schemes and scams and betrayals and all that other stuff embodying greed and other negativity is not something I'd choose to spend time watching. It's just a personal preference of mine, like staying away from war movies. I was worried that the entire show would be a glorification of selfish greed, in essence 'I am the best at being the worst'. This wasn't entirely true, but it did play a large role. There were merchant characters that seemed like genuinely good people like pic related who was my favorite. Also the ponytail guy early in S2 who must have also voiced Billy in Undead Unluck. I'd like to see their stories.

But, something was needed to drive the story forward and human greed is a reliable one. I suppose it makes the show more grounded/realistic and also serves to contrast the ugliness of humans with the ideals of Holo the nurturing guardian of the wheat that asked for nothing in return. Lawrence was not someone I could root for. In fact I had the feeling that surely everyone did at the beginning: he doesn't deserve Holo. After seeing both seasons I still feel this way and don't really consider him redeemed at all, but I think that's intentional. He's one of those 'flawed protagonists' I guess, but his mistakes are results of greed and disregard for others including Holo. I see that less as a flaw and more as a immutable personality trait. It does seem like at the very end he has some character growth and a "maybe people (Holo) is more important than being rich" moment, but I still don't like him because it came about due to failure instead of conscious choices. "I failed as a merchant, but I guess Holo is better than nothing!"
But, again, maybe I'm supposed to feel this way. Maybe everything can't be a sappy fantasy of "Oh, Holo! You are more important than all the gold in the world!"
That's something I'll talk more about in another post... later.

>>122901
Business/economics is a natural part of our world. Without it modern society wouldn't exist. The franchise showcases both the good, the bad and the neutral aspects about it. Holo's sharp wits help Lawrence in his negotiations. They compliment each other. Humans are neither intrinsically good nor intrinsically evil and S&W does a good job of portraying this.

>>122901

Holo

To state the obvious, Holo is fantastic. It's a bit strange how Holo's abilities weren't used much (and she even says as much in the story), but I suppose there wouldn't be much conflict if she just solves every issue. It is plain to see why many have been so drawn to her. The greatest compliment I can give is that at times she reminds of a certain other strong-willed kemonomimi'd woman with a fluffy tail.
Her voice is very charming, having that 'cha' inflection like Lum, although I'm not sure if that's the proper term for something in Japanese. Holo is how you write an endearing woman to enrapture male readers/viewers of a certain age or preference, and it could have worked on me. There's nothing wrong with "pure and innocent" idealized girls, but I think it's exceedingly difficult to portray them as people with life in them. Holo is certainly a fantastical character, but she's also believable. Holo's manipulations, sulking and outbursts aren't good per se, but it's part of being a person.
She's also excellent at humor and faces, both silly and serious. In fact a great strength of the anime is the emotion in her face. Her ears and tail are obviously a great bonus for depicting this, but the way her face changes... actually I'll mention this part in another post.

Characters that serve as both the fun and the romantic role are not as common as they should be. Holo can be extremely strong, but at other times her open vulnerability and sadness sends the moeness into overdrive. I don't think people normally use 'moe' to describe a mature-ish character, but I think it's valid.
Speaking of maturity, the only flaw I see in her is a result of the anime process itself. It's kind of disorienting at how much her appearance changes from scene to scene. Sometimes she looks like she's 12 and other times (like pic related) she's a middle-aged seductress. If you ask which I prefer, I would take the mature one. Just look at those eyes! And she has a nose! (albeit it's just a line). She's from that transitional era where noses were mostly but not entirely gone.
I prefer the original anime's style, but so far Holo looks older in the remake and will probably be more consistent about it. I'm sure this is going to be a point of contention with some preferring the early teen look, but I think it makes more sense thematically for her to look older. (my incorrect assumption was Lawrence was in his 40s)

Also is my memory going or did people once call her "Horo"? I'm guessing at some point The L/R thing was decided for her name? Horith.
This isn't all I have to say about Holo, but I don't want to spend hours forcing all my thoughts into one single post.

>>122908
>The greatest compliment I can give is that at times she reminds of a certain other strong-willed kemonomimi'd woman with a fluffy tail
That certainly is the greatest compliment you could give, glad to see her charm is apparent to everyone. Gives me hope that this new adaptation will reach a wider audience so that we'll see even more material of her come out like with the Spice and Wolf VR. I agree with the 'cha' inflection being somewhat akin to Lum but at the same time her voice is dissimilar to Lum in that her tone more resembles other beings of divinity than Lum's more maidenly tone. The most recent example I'd say being Mitsuchi-hime from Sengoku Youko, there's somewhat of a cockiness to it that exudes her status as an elevated being.

When it comes to using her abilities, Holo is usually much more reserved not because of plot convenience, but because doing so would be quite risky for her and Lawrence in the long run. If they were to go around solving everything with violence then the church would quickly get word about her existence and life would become a whole lot tougher for the two, which is why it's rarely used. Although if you mean her other powers, then yeah, it's probably more the enjoyment the two find in mercantilism and Lawrence not wanting to use Holo as simply a tool for profits.

If you want a more consistently designed Holo, I'd definitely recommend the manga. It's probably her best form too, but that's just usually the case with manga.

>Also is my memory going or did people once call her "Horo"?
It's Korbo

>>122901
>but I still don't like him because it came about due to failure instead of conscious choices.
I think I know what you're referring to but I'd say that there's a much greater point in the story where you can say that the two became truly affixed to each other and it wasn't just a result of his failures that he made his choice. Rather it was to honor his word to her and I think that's where you can say Holo truly gained respect for Lawrence and much of their future relationship is built upon.

>>122908
and now the most important part... which is probably obvious:

Romance

It's hard to separate this from the Holo entry, but I tried. I will say in advance that I can't judge this without severe bias as someone that is a bit of a lifelong hopeless romantic. This stuff is like a drug to me, particularly the unfortunately very rare kind that's aimed at men. I could rant about this for 50 paragraphs but I'll relent. Obviously women appreciate this show/manga/LN (I assume), but Holo is certainly the focus of intimacy. I think pic related is a good example. It is unmistakably Lawrence's hand, but the view purposely allows the viewer, lost in the moment, to interpret it as his own. Holo caresses it, bringing it to her face. Ahh, so wonderful! This is beautiful romantic male escapism in its purest form.

It feels like you could separate the show into two parts, the mercantile machinations of Lawrence pursuing wealth as seen by others while the other part, lesser in time but far greater in value, is seen as him as he experiences the blossoming bond with Holo. Despite the show having such a large chunk of itself devoted to economic (blegh) stuff, I feel like the 30% of the show that was about the relationship has a higher concentration of male-attuned romantic qualia than 50 other romantic shows put together. In particular Holo's variety of emotions as seen on her face is in a league of its own. Does it count as 4th wall breaking if the thing she says about manipulating Lawrence or men is so expertly conveyed through direct example? I can't stress enough how well her face conveys such instinctual empathetic communication. But again, I'm biased. I am praising this show a lot, but this is also a condemnation of everything else. (I am curious of the manga, but I doubt it can have the same effect just due to the intrinsic limitations of the medium. Maybe I'll give it a try...)

I thought about talking about their relationship dynamics, but I'm sure other people have done that enough over the years and I have nothing to add there. Well, I guess I'll say that it feels like a great adult relationship as opposed to the awkward purity of what you normally see in highschool settings and the like. The characters have their own dreams and motivations and they try to mold and shape them into a form compatible with their new partner. There is certainly naivety and mistakes, but it's done in a way that feels human instead of a caricature or cliché. Again, there's nothing wrong with that pure highschool romance stuff, but there's just something it lacks. Those can be beautiful, but not as beautiful as two flawed people admitting their weaknesses and becoming stronger together. (even if Holo deserves better)

I guess I can read the thread now, or later...

sigh what do you have against economics and merchanting and capitalism

>>122937
Every second of economics is a second not spent on Holo

I hope the music in the new one is good. Nothing really stuck out to me so far, but it's very early on. They got the Made in Abyss guy https://anilist.co/staff/121796/Kevin-Penkin so I'm hoping for some atmospheric stuff.

>>122954
It's going to be hard to live up to the soundtrack of the original. It might not be everyone's cup of tea but it's very fitting for the franchise and one of the most unique anime soundtracks I've ever heard.

>>122958
It certainly has a distinctly western middle-ages sound to it that I don't think many anime will opt to try, but with the MiA guy producing a fairly unique ost for that it's possible he could make something nice here.

Didn't even know it had Made in Abyss staffing but there it is, Kevin Penkin is on the OST

Kissufrens, should I read the light novel first or should I watch the anime?
>>122875
>current days on 4chan
Jokes on you, I stopped browsing a couple of years after the 8chan exodus

>>122962
I'd just watch the anime first and then read the LN later. I haven't read it and only looked up some spoilers related to it, but the official translation is probably serviceable.

>>122963
Good to know, thanks anon.

I just heard a rumor (very credible) that the story is going to change to Lawrence admitting the evils of mercantilism and apologizing to everyone as he switches to the farming life. Wow, this remake is going to be great!

>>123441
He did have an interest in apple farmers..I could get this

>>123441
Anon... denouncing mercantilism means promoting free trade...

>>123466
Oh, alright. Merchantism.

ate Zundamon

he deserved it

will be possessed by beans soon

beans beans the musical fruit
the more you eat the more you toot

>>122954
I'd say he's proving his worth already. Lots of music in episode 3, including the first glimpses of the 'serious' stuff. The market music was good and medieval-y and the happy music was quite nice as well. If you can't trust a guy wearing a medieval-style shirt in his profile then who can you trust?

>>123548
Yeah, I'm glad we've got a new soundtrack to compete with the original instead of a step-down that normally happens in remakes. Good choice on the studio's end.

I noticed that there's no more Duomo di Firenze in the reboot to make it more obvious that it's an Italian inspired town. The city is bigger but much less detailed as a result.

>>123700
It's this cathedral with a dome in the middle of the town. Pretty much identical to the Florence cathedral.

>>123700
>>123701
Hmm, that's an interesting decision. The first pic is so distant and nondescript, like it wasn't intended for anyone to really look at it for very long. Maybe there will be a better shot eventually. It looks more like an old map drawing or something.
I wonder which is more manga accurate, or LN accurate if that.

>>123764
There is this aerial view instead, a much closer shot. This is the Santa Maria Novella basilica, which is also a church in Florence.

>>123764
I kind of dislike them both.
The new one is, as you said, nondescript. Though I think the main problem is the lack of outlines, it could look better if it wasn't all pastel and low-saturation.

The old one is comical in how clunky it is. It reminds me of WarCraft. Your eye actually gets drawn in, but when you look at things, the details are low-resolution and not very interesting.
I think it's better than the new one, because while both seem somewhat lazy, this one uses its features to better effect. It's less busy, and yet saying more.

>>123766
They changed the glass window though. The window of the real one doesn't have those details.

>>123768
And I guess you just can't depict a close up version of Santa Maria del Fiore in a satisfactory way since it's so detailed.

>>123768
Isn't that just a modern replacement for a lost medieval one?
Given some of the other windows, I guess they thought it would be a waste to not put something nicer there.

>>123770
I don't know. There's no info about this. It just says it went through some reforms and reconstructions like almost every European church. It's not a 'rose window' design like in the facade of: >>123769 although it does have a window in that design in another part.

I see a lot of potential in this remake. There's some hiccups with stuff like the 3D, but the emotions are still there and Holo's faces show it. It remains to be seen how the rest will go, of course, but I have faith.
Also, as mentioned the music is fantastic with some new tracks in episode 4. Really nice.