>>109576
I wonder if this is caused by the globalization of anime or if it's coming domestically from within Japan.

>>109578
Yeah it's strange seeing tropes all go away like that

I think it's probably an effect of the anime-watching population aging, anime becoming more international and there so there's just less demand for cutesy moe anime on net. Abe "cleaning up" Anime for the Olympics a few years back probably also did a number since the line between moe and ecchi is thin for the gaijin who sees anything not explicitly involving adults as offensive to the morals.

Regardless, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. I think a lot about this long quote from Miyazaki:
>“You see, whether you can draw like this or not, being able to think up this kind of design, it depends on whether or not you can say to yourself, ‘Oh, yeah, girls like this exist in real life.”
>“If you don’t spend time watching real people, you can’t do this, because you’ve never seen it.”
>“Some people spend their lives interested only in themselves.”
>“Almost all Japanese animation is produced with hardly any basis taken from observing real people, you know.”
>“It’s produced by humans who can’t stand looking at other humans.”
>“And that’s why the industry is full of otaku!”

So... I think it's all about trends. Moe was a trend in the same way that isekai is a trend. That's what Miyazaki was lamenting in this quote, I believe. The video source used to be on YouTube and widely shared, but finding it is impossible due to the unending amount of garbage reaction video essay sloptubers muddying the results and the equally useless YouTube Shorts that the search results churns out. I severely doubt the stupid "Anime was a mistake" reaction tubers understand that that's what he meant anyways.

I demand more moe

It's difficult to have any meaningful discussion on Japanese trends since we're on the outside barely able to peer in. I don't think International market has much bearing at all. The sources of moe have moved from anime to vtubers probably.

>>109586
>The sources of moe have moved from anime to vtubers probably.
Kissu isn't ready to have that discussion.

>>109586
>The sources of moe have moved from anime to vtubers probably.
Then moe is dead. Because behind every vtuber is something very unmoe.

>>109581
>That's what Miyazaki was lamenting in this quote, I believe
How the hell do you spin that quote in that way?
He's very direct in what he was trying to say.
Anime is disconnected from reality = people who don't like reality like anime.
In any case I wouldn't really ponder on Miyazaki's thoughts too hard.

>Moe was a trend in the same way that isekai is a trend
I doubt that, moe was part of anime since it's literal inception. You can find moe anime made in the 80s.

Also why were you double quoting?

Are you saying Doux-sama isn't moe?!
Well, as an outsider to Japan that will never even visit there I can only make some guesses from what I've seen online.
I think it's a combination of stuff. The first is the Cool Japan thing that has spent decades disincentivizing certain things to increase Japan's soft power. This also caused things like Akihabara to supposedly become a shadow of its former self in order to maximize tourist appeal to rake in that money that powers Japan's economy. It has been very lucrative, perhaps far above anyone's expectations back in the 90s. (Not for the actual creators of course, just the executives and investors, but there's nothing new there).
I could imagine that there's some similarity with the Western world also where small independent creators get gobbled up by large corporations and need to please executives and lose a lot of creative freedom as a result. These executives will say "Hey, Archetype A had a lot of success, so you're going to make Archetype A again! Don't you dare branch out into Archetype B or C!"

Somewhat related to the above is the desire for companies to maximize their audience, so they try to appease everyone and don't want to risk alienating people, especially the overly sensitive foreigners. Companies are increasingly reliant on international sales to make a profit and that has a chilling effect. (This applies more to games although I'm sure it's come up with stuff like Crunchyroll)

Another, I think is probably just trends changing naturally over time. Stuff gets boring if it's formulaic. Or so I'd like to say, but Japanese people themselves have become slaves to copypaste gacha from Korea and China while vtubing is vtubing, so maybe everyone just has terrible taste now. If you're under a certain age you just won't know any better.

Something also to remember is that as culture and technology changes, so to does our fantasies about it. Robots are less cool today because they're seen less as something magical and futuristic and more as an inevitability weighed down by reality. It's less "Whoa a sexy robot maid would be awesome!" and more "That won't happen because sexiness does not increase efficiency and it will scare away puritan investors". Now people fantasize about being isekaid'd to a time hundreds of years before our current reality because it seems better than the future. Hooray.


I forgot where I was going with this, I kind of just threw together a bunch of paragraphs because I'm tired and can't sleep.

>>109586
Am I the only person here who could never stand vtubers because it doesn't feel normal

>>109595
Nah, pretty sure a lot of people (myself included) don't like them.
Same as with gacha.

>>109595
>Am I the only person here
Kissu as a whole is very anti-vtuber apart from a few anonymous here and there.

>>109590
>How the hell do you spin that quote in that way?
If the people making anime are otaku and not people using anime as a medium, then the stories they create will be referential of the medium, not reflections on reality and the self. Thus, trends within the medium propagate by virtue of this lack of reflection upon the world. Maybe I am wrong, but I think this is Miyazaki's point. Again, it's almost impossible to find the original source video, so you're free to really say whatever you like about his intentions or not as rebuttal.

>moe was part of anime since it's literal inception.
That's a non sequitor; "Asbestos was the home insulation of choice since it's literal inception" -- It's not anymore. Whatever you're feelings, moe is as much a trend as anything else. If the year was 1990 you could say the same of Mecha, and now we only get a pittance, same as moe. Hence, it was a trend in my view.

>Also why were you double quoting?
I copy-pasted from an article because as mentioned I was unable to find the video and I didn't bother removing the quotation marks.

>>109598
>If the people making anime are otaku and not people using anime as a medium, then the stories they create will be referential of the medium, not reflections on reality and the self. Thus, trends within the medium propagate by virtue of this lack of reflection upon the world.
Well yeah, but how is that related to
>Moe was a trend in the same way that isekai is a trend. That's what Miyazaki was lamenting in this quote
I just don't see the connection there.

>If the year was 1990 you could say the same of Mecha, and now we only get a pittance, same as moe.
>"Asbestos was the home insulation of choice since it's literal inception" -- It's not anymore.
You're comparing apples and oranges here.
Moe is literally the foundation of anime as it exists now. It's been a core part of the industry for literal decades.
Mecha was mostly only relevant during the 80s and 90s.
If anything the weird trend is the current anime, rather than the other way around.

Also
>Whatever you're feelings
Minor spelling mistake.

>>109599
If you're going to be purposefully uncharitable and dense, there's no point talking with you.

^very tsundere

>>109601
I'm not trying to be, I just legitimately don't see your point.

>>109603
NTA, but people generally don't appreciate uncalled-for mentions like "Why were you double quoting?" and "Minor spelling mistake".

>>109604
Was that it?
If that was the problem then I apologize, I didn't mean anything bad by that.