No.1223
I have a hard time believing any religious person would frequent kissu given that half the board is pornographic.
My advice to you is to stock up on wholesome 2D content to entertain your fast if you're gonna stop using imageboards
No.1224
Good luck! I think. I don't know what I'm meant to say...
>>1223Christians made a lot of lewd images as well, like all the images of naked Greek goddesses or swans doing lewd things to women yes it's based on Greek mythology but done by Christians, and then the original of this image is lewd as well.
Muslims made less but I think that there were lewd Ottoman images, I remember seeing one where... actually it's too lewd I can't say.
Much of the site is not that lewd either.
No.1225
>>1223Ramadan 'fasting' is only during sunlight hours. Unless there's something I didn't know about sexual activities being off limits for the entire holiday
No.1226
>>1225Spousal sexual activity is forbidden only during daylight fasting hours, but without a wife you're not supposed to do any regardless of ramadan
No.1235
>>1227Nah, it's a key Hindu concept - note that the word is composed from Rama + dharma.
No.1236
>>1224There's this one Ottoman painting that has two guys having gay sex but it's interrupted by a band barging in playing instruments, and to top it off there's this guy in the back looking in on them through the window with this face like he wishes he could join in.
It just kills me that it exists it's comedy platinum.
No.1237
>>1236Fun fact: The Ottomans were one of the first modern European countries to legalize gay sex (in 1858).
No.1238
>>1224I cannot really talk about Christian art because I do not really know enough but I assume its like the nipples are not inherently pornographic argument. The aniconism trends in Christianity go back and forth.
Ottoman art is an odd case as it was influenced by both the east and west and thus did very uncharacteristic things like depictions of Muhammad.
No.1240
not just the ottoman, the ottowoman too
No.1241
>>1237It must have still felt too long a wait for them
No.1242
>>1237I would not really call them European...
No.1245
>>1222What country are you from?
No.1249
>>1245Dont tell him OP! He's gonna gangstalk you
No.1252
>>1243Historically Europeaness was defined in opposition to the Turks/Muslims. Especially in the early modern period, Turks were seen as invaders to Europe and even during some religious strife in the HRE the Turks attacking would serve as a unifying force for the disparate princes of the HRE and Eastern Europe. Turks being included in European institutions is a recent thing and less from them being considered European and more from them being part of the political reality in Eastern Europe. The cultural instinct for the Catholic/Protestant and Orthodox heritage nations is that being European means you must have some sort of Christian heritage. Christianity and Europeaness are very tightly interwoven, in the same way being Japanese implies you follow some form of Shintoism.
No.1255
>>1252so spain isn't european huh...
No.1256
>>1253Sorry I should be more clear, there is a distinction between the Europe the cultural term and Europe the Geographic term.
Turks are not culturally European by virtue of being Muslims before the modern era. It doesn't matter that the ERE was in the exact same spot the Turks are in now, it's their religion combined with the cultural heritage of being from central Asia that makes them not European.
>>1255Spain is European but Al-Andulas/The Moors were/are not. The geographic location plays a role in it but it's also the time period, religion, and cultural heritage of the peoples/nation. Al-Andulas and it's successor states styled themselves more as Arab descendants of Mohamed than as Roman Christians.
No.1257
>>1256uh... ok... well Greeks and some of the Baltics aren't really European either then since they spent a few centuries under the Ottomans
No.1260
>>1259
By that logic europe doesn't even exist at all.
No.1262
>>1257We're mixing the State and ethnic groups now. The Greeks as a people group are European but the State that ruled over them, the Ottoman State was not European.
>>1259For the Baltics it's a similar thing but reversed. European Crusaders invaded and ruled over the Baltic peoples who over time became European as well. I'm almost certain that had any of the Crusader states survived the past the early modern period or had more immigration/assimilation from/with the Crusaders they would be more European as well.
This sounds arbitrary because it is. The European idea of European has developed over 2000-ish years and in some places at some times it's a cultural distinction and others a geographic distinction and others both. It's a type of narrative that peoples and states craft for themselves to contextualize themselves in the region they exist.
A big reason for the divide being a Christian-Muslim one is the historical precedent it has. Starting with the Arab invasions in the 7th century until the Balkan wars in the 20th. The peoples on both sides of the conflict would use different terms to define themselves in relation to their adversary and those that are most often considered European would use their Christian identity in opposition to the Arab/Turkic Muslim identity of those they fought.
No.1263
>>1262Do you really think there aren't a lot of Muslims in the Balkans?
No.1264
>>1263I do but the large antagonistic state that ruled over those peoples were the Turks so any sort of "otherness" about them gets transferred over to the Turks. Also they have the benefit as being seen as converts instead of invaders. Turks are foreign in religion and ethnicity.
No.1265
>>1264whatever you say dude...
No.1266
>>1265If you are trying to say that a people group is European based solely off the geographic location you're misunderstanding how historic peoples viewed themselves in relation to others and how that affected future people groups. There is a narrative surrounding any definition of peoples and we are in a a constant process of defining and redefining those narratives. This discussion is a part of the process as well but it doesn't change the story that has already been told.
No.1267
>>1266you probably don't even live in europe. no one I speak to from their even cares about this
No.1268
>>1267I don't and most people I talk to don't care either but that's because it's mostly history and only relevant to people trying to understand the past.
No.1269
>>1268yeah whatever. make up some crackpot theory about what an american thinks europe is. I'm sure you'll get a PhD for it
No.1270
>>1269What is European to you? Is it strictly the geographic location?
Who is a part of "the West", what does it mean to be "Western"? Is South America part of "the West"? Is South Africa? Is Australia? Is Japan? Could you see the definition of "the West" be different 50 years from now?
No.1271
I guess /spg/ is hidden too! It's a seasonal tradition!
No.1272
>>1270Cool attempt to force me into having a black and white position on what a country is.
No.1274
Serious Discussion of the Industrial output of the Austrio-Hungarian Empire
No.1277
>>1272I don't understand what you are saying or what you think is wrong with what I'm saying, aside from "Turks are not historically European" is "wrong". I also fail to see how I'm forcing you to "a black and white position on what a country is". It's not like just because a country is "European" or in "the West", means that is can't also be not "European" or in "the East". I just want to understand your position too so I can figure out what the disagreement is.
No.1278
>>1277>s "European" or in "the West", means that is can't also be not "European" or in "the East"i meant for it to be
"s "European" or in "the West", means that is can't also be in "the East" or not "European""
No.1279
>>1277I guess an American would no understand that how Europe works and that European identity has nothing to do with anything other than political alliances and trade agreements.
No.1280
>>1279Considering the absolute vitriol directed towards the UK for wanting to leave I dunno if that's all it is
No.1281
>>1280stay in your continent
No.1282
Greece is turkish clay our the am originate near east to blackness greeks myself am greek and everyone that remains originate albania, north macedonia and greece is turkey
No.1283
I AM GREEK
No.1284
>>1279>European identity has nothing to do with anything other than political alliances and trade agreementsI fundamentally disagree with that and even if that is true now it was not true as little as 80 years ago.
Anyways' I've been trying to speak towards what people who were "Europeans" historically thought of as "European"; not what people who are currently "European" think what "European" is. Though to say that there isn't a connection between the two would be silly, i think.
No.1286
Do you know that Cyprus is turk too We didnt invade in 1974 and brought population here, turks living in Cyprus are totally natives. Greeks however are salty about losing the island to the crusaders in 1204 and want to get it back. Greeks are allied with France and France is islamophobic, that's why they dislike Turkey and wish us to die. That is really racist and islamophobic because we just want to live in peace. Our great president Erdogan dont participate in any fights. West is only salty about how great Turkey is.
No.1287
furthermore, the british sources only mention 600k to 800k armenians living in Ottoman empire in 1910. Weird because the west accuse Turkey of killing 1.5 billions armenian. Anyways, Ataturk himself declared "geNocIde d1dnT HappEneD". So that's proof it effectively didnt. Armenians too were killing turkish babies in east anatolia so we had to genoc... relocate them all in the syrian desert. I say, the armenian deserved it. Back in 2019, armenians were genociding azeris in high-Karabash to be a majority and claim the territory, did you ever heard of the Khojaly massacre ? It is a genocide, However West don't like the turks and i dont know why, so they'll NEVER recognise that Armenian genocided turks. Our brothers the azerbaijanis were simply defending their lands, it was azeri before the armenians came in the area, armenians dont live here since 2000 years, it's west lies. turks lives in caucasus and anatolia since -4000 BC, the armenians and the greeks simply settled here were the turks lived, we are the victims. Seljuks were liberating the turkish people enslaved by the greeks.
No.1302
>>1284You don't understand. You don't get to decide what a European is. I don't get to decide it either. It's decided by treaties and trade agreements from countries that agree that a war would not be in their best interests.
No.1310
4chan thread
No.1314
I am GREEK
No.1316
Vern stop being useless and clean this shit up
No.1332
I'm just a bit tired of the discussion because it's based on a false premise of a European identity which doesn't exist
No.1333
>>1302That's not quite what we're talking about though, no? I thought the usage of "European" was in a more casually sense that would refer to something cultural or geographic. If you meant it in a strictly modern political/diplomatic one then sure you're right but when talking about historical artwork i fail to see how modern political/diplomatic distinctions have any relevance to the artwork in it's historical context.
No.1335
I am from Izmir. I did ancestry dna test and learned I am 80 percent Greek. My whole worl has changed. I tried to commit suicide but couldn’t do it. Now I have to live like this. But after that I decide it is a zionist game. I suggest people don’t do dna test it’s lies bcs I’m 100 percent turkish thnx
No.1336
🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷Mustafa Kemal ATATURK🇹🇷🇹🇷 KEBAB STRONG 🇹🇷💪💪💪OTTOMAN STRONG🇹🇷💪🇹🇷 GO CRY ARMENIA🤮🤢🇦🇲🤢🤮 ARMENIA GENOCIDE NOT HAPPEN BUT IF DID THEY DESERVE🖕🖕 ARMNIA KILL TURKS FIRST!! GAYREEK SWIM 1923🇬🇷🤢🤮🤣🤣 TURKEY VS WHOLE WORLD 1919-1923🇹🇷🇹🇷 ISTANBUL>>>>CONSTANTINOPLE 1453 BEST YEAR OTTOMAN🇹🇷🇹🇷💪💪👊👊 TURAN POWER🇹🇷🇹🇷🇦🇿🇦🇿 GAYMNIA=EAST TURKEY, WEST AZERBAIJAN🇦🇿🇹🇷🇦🇿🇹🇷 OTTOMAN DEFEAT BRITISH GAY in GALIPOLI🤮🤢🇬🇧 TURKEY🇹🇷🇹🇷 BETTER THAN EUROSHIT💩💩🇪🇺🤮🖕🖕🖕
No.1337
>>1336>TURKEY VS WHOLE WORLDhmm, based?
No.1339
>>1332>false premise of a European identity which doesn't existThat's just quite true. Being European isn't like being American or Chinese or Egyptian but it is a classifier of peoples that can be identified as sharing some commonalities whether it be geographic or cultural.
>>1334You're reading too much antagonism into something that really didn't have any. I think certain people just saw words and language that is normally associated with politically charged discussion and projected their fears onto it. This is really benign once you remove the posts trying to antagonize it into something more shit-flingy.
No.1340
I'm sorry for shitposting but I had to!
No.1342
>>1340Kissu is not 4chan.
No.1347
you'll get to eat nice food at night though
No.1348
>>1243The near east was not historically part of Europe, the word Asia was crated to describe Anatolians and the Roman province of Asia was western Anatolia.
Organisations like that aren't really a good basis for such an argument, it's like arguing that Australia is European because it's in Eurovision, and that would probably be a better argument because you could argue that culturally they are European.
Turks are quite separate from Europe in numerous ways, religion plays a part but is not the be all and end all here, the bigger aspects are language and culture. The Turks are a Turkic people, they don't speak an Indo-European language, they don't even speak a Semitic language(like those in the rest of the middle east do), they speak a Turkic language, they are foreign to the entire region. Of courses Finland, Hungary and Estonia also don't speak an Indo-European language yet they are considered European and while that is true they have also been heavily subjugated by European nations for a long time to the point where they culturally are European, if you had asked somebody 1000 years ago whether the Finns were European or not they would probably say they were not.
The culture of Turkey(and the Ottoman empire) simply is not European and very little about it could ever be considered to be so, there were no palace Harems in Europe, that was eastern, there was not caste of slave soldiers in Europe, that was eastern, the cloths the Ottomans wore, were eastern, the food they ate was eastern, the military traditions, weapons and tactics, were eastern, etc. They simply are not European.
No.1352
>>1336I didn't know emoji were allowed on kissu.
>>1337Based on what?
No.2105
very nice international thread
No.2106
bad sagebump