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File:65069cabd10f41040c6025e6b2….png (3.19 MB,2049x1153)

 No.98115[Last50 Posts]

Right now it seems to be a good time to build a PC:
CPUs and GPUs are coming back in stock.
GPU price dropped to MSRP, thanks to the end of GPU crypto mining.
New generation, low availability technologies are cropping up like PCIe 4, DDR5, RTX 4090, AM5 socket, diverting consumer attention away from previous gen.
M.2 SSDs are cheaper than ever, and will be even cheaper in the near future because of flash memory chip oversupply.

What does /qa/ think about building a PC now?


File:[SubsPlease] Teppen - 04 (….jpg (254.15 KB,1280x720)

I don't really follow computer news unless I know I'm being parts soon, which I'm not, so I can't really give my own input. But, it does seem like a good time due to world events putting future supplies of stuff in an unpredictable position to say the least.
GPUs seem like a mess right now to me and that's the only thing I could see myself buying apart from a new PSU to support it.
Man, it sucks that EVGA is leaving the GPU market. I loved those guys and I haven't used any other brand in like 15 years.


File:[SubsPlease] Tensei Shitar….jpg (265.67 KB,1920x1080)

I think it's a pretty good time for building if you're in the mood for an upgrade. As for myself, got a new 3080 for about half what people were paying just a few months ago for these.


yeah its great
too bad I already have a pc


File:[MoyaiSubs] Reiwa no Di Gi….jpg (364.48 KB,1920x1080)

How much is that, and is that a normal price now or did you get a special deal?
I guess Black Friday is coming in a little over a month, too, so there might be some deals there. (I think that's one commercial American holiday that has gone global thanks to the internet)


Got my (nice) 3080 for ~$800, and my father a few months before me bought his 3070 for around $1500, so it's come down quite a bit, and should definitely come down even more come black friday now that the 40 series is the hot new thing.


File:02523-3999078290-(masterpi….png (295.96 KB,512x512)

Bleh, $800. Yeah, it'd need to be cheaper than that. How much VRAM is that?
I wonder if EVGA still has any to sell. Probably not.


10GB of VRAM.


File:02563-1626171772-(masterpi….png (378.38 KB,512x512)

Dang, people were talking about using 12GB for some of this AI stuff. Maybe I'll just wait for the 60xx series


File:__cirno_touhou_drawn_by_ca….jpg (137.09 KB,800x800)

Well can't regular RAM make up for any lack of VRAM or am I missing something? Surely most people have at least 16GB these days right?


File:02569-2326050920-(masterpi….png (251.95 KB,512x512)

Hmm, I'll have to read up on that, but I feel someone would have mentioned that somewhere if that were the case. If it is, that'd be a great benefit to me since I future-proofed myself a bit and have 32gb of regular RAM


>Well can't regular RAM make up for any lack of VRAM or am I missing something?
That's not how it works, no...


File:__cirno_touhou_drawn_by_ok….png (172.12 KB,424x600)

But they both have RAM in their names...


File:02651-929279078-(masterpie….png (250.64 KB,512x512)

I guess that'd be too simple, huh.
Looked at the 3090 for the hell of it and it has 24GB. Could they really not field something between 10 and 24?


Well if you want more vram you can go to ebay and get a used 3090 for under $800 right now...


I'm going to build a PC.


Ganbare!! Remember to use https://pcpartpicker.com so you can find out which sites have the lowest prices for components!


It's a fantastic website, giving you the option to filter its comprehensive listings by so many criteria and telling you about compatibility and estimated wattage. All websites should aspire to be as valuable in their domain as pcpartpicker.


Per component wattages are getting ridiculous...


File:fcb550cea9eb865273446e88ae….jpg (3.17 MB,2655x2910)

just got a 5700x for $210
like how cool it runs, all cores 3.7ghz sustained only gives 63c while the fan still runs quiet and performs 40% faster than the old 2700x
tried to use the auto oc option and it sustained at 4.4ghz but performance improved only by 10% and the temperature went sky high and the fan was too loud so i left it at stock config for now


I really wish Intel would stick with a socket for more than 2 generations. There was a rumor recently that the generation after Raptor Lake might use the same LGA1700 socket because the CPU retaining mechanism says LGA17XX/18XX, but I'm sure it will be incompatible and require a new motherboard...

With how expensive motherboards are getting, I'd at least like it to be able to support a few generations... I don't get why they can't just make an "LGA2000" or something and then just have a bunch of reserved pins for IO expansion in the future if newer motherboards need more IO to support PCIe 6.0 or DDR6 or something.


I'm thinking of getting a new PSU on Cyber Thursday/Black Friday and potentially a new GPU. This 6GB of VRAM is really starting to bother me- I couldn't use the HD texture pack in Monster Hunter World a few years ago and the personalized AI fetish porn generator needs at least 10GB if you want to make your own models.
But, if I'm upgrading stuff I'd probably want to start watercooling again- I still have my old pumps, reservoirs and radiators, but I'd need new CPU and GPU coolers. Bleh. This is a lot of money so I don't know if I'll bother at all.


are the prices low for real now?


okay i ordered a 5600


Been savings my pennies all year so I can build a best-of-the-best PC when the Zen4 3D cache chips come out. Hopefully it will last me 10 years like my current one has.


File:[MoyaiSubs] Reiwa no Di Gi….png (2.88 MB,1920x1080)

So, uhh... where the heck do I go to look for info on Black Friday/Cyber Thursday deals? Is it just some reddit pages somewhere or have people made websites for this? I haven't done this in years


File:1639423290817.png (709.22 KB,598x718)

>>98188 here, did anyone else build a PC aside from maybe >>98689?
Good lord, the two 1440p monitors I bought along with it are such an upgrade. Before them I was using a line of:
¥768x1024 CRT
¥old 1024x1280 LCD monitor in portrait mode
¥your typical 1080p LCD monitor
I'll have to find some other use for them. I dug up an old hard drive and put windows XP on it and hooked it up to the old computer but the hardware is too new and it doesn't recognize most of the peripherals on its motherboard. Sigh it's much easier with virtualbox isn't it.


>¥768x1024 CRT
you use crt in portrait mode? how?


Isn't it written vertical x horizontal? the LCD was in portrait mode.


well, for 1440p and 1080p monitors you didn't write them in full and assumed to be in landscape mode, and for the portrait mode monitor you used vertical x horizontal, so i inferred that using writing out vertical x horizontal implicitly means portrait mode in you post.


File:1653430208920.jpg (182.58 KB,550x550)

this is how you use a CRT in portrait mode


You can try the subreddit r/buildapcsales, but if you're trying to build a PC I think it might be better to use PCPartPicker and then just sort through parts based on what you're looking for. Right now everything is just pre-Black Friday sales as far as I know. The only thing I can find that I'd be interested in is that the Intel 670p 2TB M.2 SSD is down to $130 on Newegg.

Typically it's written horizontal x vertical, like 1920 x 1080, or 1280 x 720 for example.


File:[SubsPlease] Bocchi the Ro….png (567.87 KB,1280x720)

I'm after some computer parts and a laptop for my mom so I guess something like that would work. Although, it's a bit messy and impossible to organize since it's user submitted stuff. Well, 'search' is there so I guess I could search "PSU" or something for power supplies as long as people correctly label them.
I'll try searching if anything is cataloging what sites will have deals for what when the day or even week arrives and this still doesn't seem very good, but maybe it IS the best there is.



warmly waiting for black friday sales to finish my new pc. although i'm also new at this whole norm shopping thing, doesn't the stock on everything that's desirably run out very quick on these sale days? it seems stressful to have to be up and paying attention at a certain time or else it's gone...


man, i bought a laptop like an idiot last month, hadn't thought at all about electro consumer day...


File:[SubsPlease] Bocchi the Ro….png (1.53 MB,1280x720)

Thanks. I'm glad to see a traditional forum still thriving. You reminded me that I used to anandtech's forums: https://forums.anandtech.com/categories/shopping.30/
Not nearly as active as it once was. The Black Friday subforum is dead, but the other one seems semi-active.


It's more like "Black November" nowadays, sales start at the beginning of the month. Supposedly the biggest sales are "Black Friday" for brick and mortar and "Cyber Monday" for online.

There are limited supplies of featured items usually. Niche items like computer parts are unlikely to be featured, tends to be more like TVs, laptops, external drives, etc.


>It's more like "Black November" nowadays, sales start at the beginning of the month
Yeah, apparently I missed a good Amazon sale on some uhh.. 30## something Nvidia card on Amazon's Black Friday Preview Day or whatever it was called. I guess this is a bad time to be a procrastinator.
Time to dive in... tomorrow


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I think this about sum up GPUs the past few years. The amazing Black Friday deal is that it's actually selling at the retail price.


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For those in the US, remember that Best Buy has a yearly sale this time of year for an external hard drive that people (including myself) generally take apart and treat as a regular internal drive. I don't keep track of these things, but I think $200 for 14TB is pretty good and this has been an annual thing for years and people have yet to report any significant problems.


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There's actually a website for this, https://shucks.top and yeah $200 for 14TB seems like a steal.


aw shucks


Apparently there's a decent amount of 4080s for sale because anyone with the money to buy a 4080 just bought the 4090 instead.
You're either loaded and can buy a 40xx card or you can't.


Yeah, I've heard about their poorer sales, but at the same time it looks like no where online actually has any 40 series cards in stock, and when they do they're scalping prices on top of the already ridiculous MSRPs... I can't help but think that Nvidia is enforcing artificial scarcity the same way Nintendo did for the Switch given the anecdotes about how horribly the 4080 is selling at physical retailers.


File:[MoyaiSubs] Reiwa no Di Gi….png (2.11 MB,1920x1080)

Just suffered a partial hard drive failure which is great, but I backed it up a week ago because the drive seemed like its problems were getting worse.
Anyway, saw this and it seems like a great deal so I just bought it:
My drive that died was a regular SSD with 400GB that I paid like $90 for so uhh... this is pretty nice.
Make sure you have a compatible NVMe slot if you buy it, and no GPU blocking it or anything.


File:[MoyaiSubs] Reiwa no Di Gi….png (2.15 MB,1920x1080)

Actually i was able to cancel this one before it shipped and I got
instead. Seems like it's a lot faster and only $20 more. Apparently this is a really highly regarded brand so it should last me a long time


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Since it's Black Friday, in case anyone is thinking about getting any GPUs I figured I should point some lesser thought about stuff.

When it comes to rasterized performance, Nvidia and AMD are mostly on par with one another. So, for purely gaming workloads, it makes sense to consider whichever is cheaper, but if you care about specific creative workloads like rendering, video capture, and especially anything CUDA-based, Nvidia is generally the better of the two. In a lot of situations, if there isn't any AMD or generic GPU support, you'll be relegated to relying on the CPU, which is often miles slower. Some more pertinent examples currently could include stuff like Stable Diffusion, which is CUDA-based, although it does have AMD and CPU support. There's also things like Meriken's Tripcode generator which is also CUDA-based.

For most people, that extra software support won't make a difference, but if you plan on doing any creative workloads it might sway your decision to go with Nvidia over AMD.

Ray-tracing doesn't matter :P


Yeah, apparently the 4090 is massively amazing and potentially maybe possibly worth it if you're into CG and making hugely complex scenes. Gaming? Meh


File:[SubsPlease] Mairimashita!….jpg (271.24 KB,1280x720)

/qa/! /qa/! I bought parts!

My keyboard's ] key finally died and my i key was heading that way, so I bought a new keyboard. I switched from brown switch to blue and boy these are pretty loud. I really love how it feels, but I'm feeling unsure about the sound. It's also a slightly different spacing so my typing is going to be full of errors. Actually from now on in this post I wont' wcorrect my typos. It's a Corsair K95 RGB Platinum XT Mechanical Gaming Keyboard!

My power supply was eight years old and making too much noise, so I think it was on the way out. It's called "coil whine" or something. Anyway, I got a newpower supply! Corsair RMx Series (2021), RM850x!

I replaced my old crappy default CPU cooler because I always hated it, but procrastinated getting an upgrade until now. It's a ARCTIC Freezer 34 eSports DUO!

Finally, I was holding off on there being a "deal" (deal in quotations because no nvidia card can be called a deal) and bought a 3080 12GB for $750 which I'm feeling cnostant guilt over. AARARRGGGHGHHAUJSDHAUSJKHDKAS! It was so much money! But it's "normal" price if you were able to find it new like I did during the holiday sale was about $900, so I feel kind of happy aobut that.

HOWEVER! Apparently my secondary monitor, my faithful Korean monitor back when those were a huge fad for nerds to buy is considered obsolete and GPUs don't have D-DVI ports any more??! I looked it up and even with an adapter it makes it laggy and most adapters are made for 1080p when my monitor is 1440p. This sucks! So now, unfortunately, I have to spend money again and get some new monitor to use because having one monitor is TERRIBLE! I hate this. It's a good monitor and has given me no problems at all. I have to abandon it because GPUs can't spare on eof their 4 ports for D-DVI?! This is infuriating.
Sigh, so here I am looking around to see if ther's any lingering "cyber Monday" deals on Tuesday.


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Personally I stay with red because it's easy to press and reduces fatigue.

>bought a 3080 12GB for $750
Which did you upgrade from? For AI stuffs VRAM is more important than raw speed and my 2060 super already has 8GB so anything less than 16GB isn't much of an upgrade for me. I would wait until mid range cards with low power consumption start to gain more VRAM.

>I looked it up and even with an adapter it makes it laggy and most adapters are made for 1080p when my monitor is 1440p.
Is that true? Your GPU should have DisplayPort which I think is pin-compatible with DVI-D so passive converters work and don't degrade signal. HDMI is the one that has problem.


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I had a 2060 with 6gb and that 6gb bothered me even before the AI stuff because the card I had before it was some special EVGA one that had 8gb, so my VRAM actually went down when I upgraded to the 2060. I couldn't use the Monster Hunter World high resolution texture pack and that bothered me quite a bit. Well, I took a personal look at the textures and a lot of the textures were a mess and it wasn't worth the 8gb anyway, but that was besides the point. I was bottlenecked by VRAM back in 2020 or 2019 or whenever Monster Hunter World was.
>Your GPU should have DisplayPort
Ah yeah, I got these confused. I was looking at DVI to DisplayPort. The basic ones for 1080p are $10, but the ones that support 1440p are $50 or more https://www.amazon.com/3D-CAC-1010-DisplayPort-Dual-Link-Adapter/dp/B07T16LLB8
I need the "active" adapter type that uses a secondary USB port to draw power and even then apparently it's laggy and they're known to degrade over time while having other issues :


i have fun gaming on outdated hardware


>even with an adapter it makes it laggy
If I'm remembering right, DVI-D should allow for passive conversion to HDMI.


File:deskcirno.png (20.25 KB,400x450)

My computer's been really killing me lately by just bluescreening all the time. I've tried every solution to try and fix it, but nothing seems to work so I've decided that I may as well just upgrade it. The only issue I have with this though is that it's such a pain to get everything set up again once I reinstall windows. Is there any way to make this process easier, or am I just screwed?


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restore from backup?



Not sure how necessarily related to the thread this is, but I was wondering about getting a drawing tablet for my PC. What experience, if any, does /qa/ have with them and which would you recommend?


Got a wacom 10 years ago because wacom is the generic drawing tablet brand you always hear of. It's a cheap bamboo pen & touch and it works well enough for the price. The drawing surface is annoyingly small so if you have the money then put it towards a larger size.
I like to put some printer paper around it and tape it at the back because it feels nicer to draw on that.


The price was about a hundred australian dollars


What's the best PC setup that one could make with a budget of ~20k and trying not to spend stupid amounts on stuff that's way too overpriced?


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I think you always need to re-install windows and undergo the fun of setting everything up. I hate it so much.

Depends on budget, your "style" and what you'll use it for. The biggest price difference is screen or no-screen. As for the "style", it's like with mice. Similarly, some people can hover in one spot while drawing while others really drag it across the place. The latter group when it comes to drawing needs a larger tablet, but a larger tablet also requires more arm movement which can cause soreness if you spend a lot of time doing it at once. Some people can do it without a screen, but others rely on it.
I bought a Huion Kamvas 16(2.5k) for $600 which was a whole lot and I still feel guilt over it, but I really wanted a big screen so I could see the environment for 3D stuff. I've been having trouble with mine recently and I think I have to RMA it, but I'm waiting for a response. Before it randomly decided to stop receiving a signal it was really nice, but I also have nothing to compare it to.

20k is absurd and way into the territory of "overpriced". I only do research into parts before I buy them, but uhh... Stuff you'd want:
nVME SSD: like the one I bought here: >>100158. Not as dramatic as the lead to SSD from HDD, but still a gain. Great for clearing up space in the case.
GPU: If you've got 20k laying around then I guess a 4090? There's really nothing to use it for if you're not doing complex scene renders in 3D programs, though, or one of them people doing major AI training. I don't personally think rendering an AI image in 3 seconds instead of 6 is a major gain if you'd use it for regular prompting stuff once in a while. Also those 4000 cards are gigantic and you need to build around them, so I'd keep that in mind. I doubt one would physically fit in my current setup since no one seemed to imagine console-sized cards even a few years ago.
Monitor: Well, it's useless to have a good computer without a good monitor. I used the last of my savings for the alienware thing that just came out: https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/alienware-34-curved-qd-oled-gaming-monitor-aw3423dwf/apd/210-BFRP/monitors-monitor-accessories#techspecs_section
If there's an emergency I'm totally screwed, but I needed to get a new screen because apparently DVI isn't supported any more. This is the centerpiece of a computer so it's probably the best thing to focus on. It's got fancy QLED screen that's good for refresh rate and colors and a wide screen that makes editing a lot less annoying. Though I still need more screen space...
But, it does have some annoying "screen-saving" technology that compels you let it "refresh" for 8 minutes every 4 hours. I turned that off and instead just make sure not to leave static stuff on the screen for too long while I'm there blocking standby mode. People still worry about that with this OLED stuff, even the QLED-OLEDs that are supposed to be strongly resistant to it, but no one knows for sure because not enough time has passed.
Motherboard/RAM: Haven't upgraded these in a few years so I don't know anything.
PSU: Definitely something to spend extra on since a power supply will take out other components if it malfunctions. I think 850 watts is standard futureproof 'gamer' fare, possibly higher if nvidia never reins it in.
Case I had one case I used for 12 years and my current one is on year 6. I never see a reason to 'upgrade' these unless your current one is really bad at thermals or vibrates.


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Thanks for the helpful post! My "20k" budget was more just a way of saying that money isn't an issue. Really looking to upgrade the motherboard too though, so I guess I'll need to do some research into that (and make sure whatever I get doesn't force Win11).


Oh, and fans. I stick with the basics and use Noctua like https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KFCRF1A
Expensive for fans, but they last for a decade or more. We're not getting any new technology to push air around.


File:84208926_p0.jpg (1.74 MB,1754x1240)

On the topic of cooling, what's the deal with liquid cooling? Is it just a m***, or is it an actual viable method for someone to cool their PC with? Never figured this out.


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It's not as great as it used to be. It's still easily the best cooling you'll get, but the gains aren't as big as they used to be since manufacturers have taken a strong anti-overclocking stance at the hardware level. Gone are the days when you can buy a $300 card and overclock it to perform like a $700 one. (when $700 was the high end price...)
Meanwhile the prices of the waterblocks are just as absurd as they used to be, if not more so. I'd like to go back to it someday, but it's definitely purely hobbyist territory instead of one that's potentially economical down the line.
Well, or if you want a REALLY quiet setup. But, again, fans are so good these days that the ones I linked are practically silent at their "idle" rate of 1400 RPM. Really, it's a thing to do if you have fun tinkering with stuff and can deal with frustrations of blockages and leaks. Some people really enjoy it (I did), but it's just not reasonable thing to do these days.
Also, those "all-in-one" closed loops are lame. A pump and radiator specifically for a part? That's stupid.


Liquid cooled GPUs have much smaller form factor compared to air cooled ones so you can fit top end GPUs into small form factor mini ITX builds.


Cirno more like buttno




I was going to build a PC sometime next year, but I have to buy a car instead now. So I just bought some DDR3 RAM off Amazon to put in my current one to hopefully tide me over for the next few years.

Oh well, I guess it gives me an excuse to wait for Zen 5 with the new architecture and for RDNA4 to mature with the new multi-chip design.


File:FglggmIakAAUXSQ.jpg (322.3 KB,1500x1520)

Pretty crazy when looking at GPUs how the 40 series has pretty much double the VRAM of the 30 series, and it was announced before this AI generating craze became a thing. Maybe now's a bit early to speculate, but I have a feeling that the next round of GPUs are going to be heavily AI focused instead of gaming, since I don't think there's really too much they can develop for in regards to those.


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The 3090 is 24GB VRAM and I think that's enough for the vast majority of people for current AI stuff. I have 12gb after wastefully splurging on a 3080 when I saw a deal pop up, and 24gb would allow me to generate more images at once, which would greatly increase the speed of acquiring good images since "press generate and hope for the best" is how things are done. But, if you can afford a 3090 today you can afford the 40xx version, which is also the same reasoning behind the 4070 being atrocious and the 4080 also being bad because the prices are so high that you might as well buy the absolute best since you have money to burn if you can entertain the idea of paying it.
Locally hosted text gen stuff uses a LOT, and you actually need like 100gb of it for the good stuff (which is still inferior to the stuff in data centers or whatever). I think the amount of people that would use 24GB or more is very limited, not that it would stop people from buying them because it's the best and they have to be the best


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I know to back up my local/appdata and documents/pictures and such, but is there anything else I should take into consideration for backups before upgrading?


Also is there anything wrong with keeping your old boot ssd in the pc?


I like her burger clip


Personally, I just backup the whole drive when I can. If not, then I just backup the Users folder, Program Files, Program Files (x86), Program Data, and any folders in the root of my boot drive that aren't OS-related. Mostly, I try to do this because if you're doing a fresh install it's hard to know where program settings and save data is stored; sometimes its within the install location in Program Files, other times its in some random folder in AppData, other times it's in Documents or the User folder.


Your PC might boot from it but thats easily fixed in bios


it likely boots based on which number of input you put it in. Input #1 taking priority over input #2, but the actual boot order is decided based on the motherboard BIOS settings


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Watched a video recently from Hardware Unboxed showing that the AMD Zen 4 CPUs are much more sensitive to RAM timings than Intel Raptor Lake so I decided to make one of those RAM latency charts for DDR5 RAM. Might be useful for anyone who's not sure how to compare RAM kits.

On that note, still waiting to see how good the Zen 4 X3D CPUs are. Overall platform cost seems kinda sucky though. It seems significantly more expensive to get an AM5 motherboard that has feature parity with relevant Z690 or Z790 motherboards, especially when also factoring in better RAM if you want to maximize performance. Granted, the ability to upgrade from, for example, a 7800X3D to an 8800X3D or 9800X3D would be pretty nice depending on how long AMD supports AM5.

Incredibly unsure what to build... I'm interested in the Zen 5 X3D CPUs because the 5800X3D performs really well in VRChat due to its massive 96MB of cache, with less benefit from faster single threaded or multithreaded performance. Speaking general in terms of real-world performance, the difference between say the i5-13600K and i9-13900K is like 10% at most despite vastly greater performance in synthetic benchmarks due to the higher core count. So... On the one hand, the i5-13600K should be a real winner since it can be found for ~$250 at Micro Center at no real world performance loss compared to an i7-13700K or i9-13900K. But, if the X3D CPUs prove great, that would mean shelling out $600 for a 7900X3D or waiting a few months for the 7800X3D at $450.

Then with the whole memory sensitivity thing, who even knows whether it would make sense to go for faster RAM if AMD themselves say 6000 MT/s is the sweet spot. Like, if I want 64GB -- which I do -- because I do a lot of creative workloads like video editing and image editing, and Blender, would it make more sense to go for 2x 32GB or 4x 16GB? I have no idea. Generally, from what I understand, using 4 DIMMs can be slower than 2 DIMMs because of the added latency of accessing multiple DIMMs. With Zen 3, however, some benchmarks alleged that using 4 DIMMs was faster than 2 DIMMs. One single sided DIMM of DDR5, however, is dual rank whereas a single sided DIMM of DDR4 is single rank, so would 4 DIMMs of quad rank (?) DDR5 perform better or worse than 2 DIMMs of dual rank DDR5? No clue, and I don't think anyone online has tested to know either.

Likewise, GPUs really suck right now. The Nvidia 40-series GPUs all have stupid memory bandwidth concessions, and memory bandwidth is the exact thing that VR needs! So, for instance, although an RTX 4070 Ti is more efficient than an RTX 3090 and performs roughly the same or better in most applicants, the RTX 4070 Ti would be trashed by the 3090 in VR because of its lower memory bandwidth (not to mention lower VRAM; 12GB compared to 24GB). AMD is a complete non-starter when it comes to VR. The 4090 is cool and all, but it's price is ridiculous and its not future proofed at all by virtue of being limited to the idiotic use of DisplayPort 1.4 instead of DisplayPort 2.0.

At this point I feel like I could wait forever, waiting for something better than whatever disappointingly flawed product comes out. On the other hand, I could build something now and actually have something. So which do I value, time or money? Will waiting even make any sense if Nvidia decides in a few years from now, "Hey everyone buy the new 5080 starting at $2199!"? Bleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh


>Incredibly unsure what to build...
Maybe take a different tack and instead of building something with the best specs, build something cute.


Building something cute won't get me FPS that doesn't make me want to throw up when I play VRChat.


Is VRChat CPU limited?


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This is a very hard question to answer, particularly because VRChat is entirely based around user generated content. That basically means that the game is about as well optimized as running your computer with half a gigabyte of RAM and pagefiles on a hard drive.

Tupper, the community manager for VRChat, has a write up about building The Current Best PC For VRChat, where he talks about some of the more demanding aspects of VRChat.

Generally, the limits in terms of performance in order of importance seem to be: VRAM > GPU performance > CPU cache > CPU performance. So, the calculus is something like this: AMD GPUs have more VRAM than Nvidia, but they have crap drivers for VR so are disqualified from consideration. The newer Nvidia GPUs below the 4090 have less VRAM than the 3090 and may get VRAM limited in some rare circumstances, but should otherwise perform better (with the questionable exemption of the 4070 Ti? Babel TechReviews claimed they would review the 4070 Ti for VR in January but still haven't released their review so who knows) than their 30-series counterparts. That said, VRAM is still a big concern with how unoptimized everything is, so is it worth sacrificing overall performance in other titles by going with a last generation card with more VRAM? This is unclear. CPU cache appears to have an outsized impact in Unity games, which VRChat is, so the AMD X3D CPUs seem to benefit massively, much moreso than the uplift you would expect from the increase in single threaded or multithreaded performance. CPU performance itself also matters, but how much or why is very hard to say; most reviewers just don't care about VR, and they certainly don't care to benchmark VRChat so any real insights into performance are basically akin to, "Hey, I read online that..."


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PC upgrading!


Cool! What case is that? 6 trays worth of hard drives doesn't seem very common.


one does not "dispose" of data


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I have my old ones in a drawer, personally. Every time they turn on and spin it's damaging, so I figure the old and slow ones should be static unless I need them someday. Well, that and they're like 10-200GB


It's the Corsair 7000D. I was thinking about getting the one apparently 'everybody' uses, but it was only a mid tower and too small for my liking. I gotta say, working in a nice huge full-tower is a whole lot easier than a smaller case.


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Small upgrade. A tech channel I watch on YouTube pointed out recently that Newegg has been having a "fire sale" of Intel Optane stuff so I got decided to get a 118GB P1600X. Fairly affordable at only $75. Heard that the Intel Optane software is kinda bad so I'm using PrimoCache instead. Very impressed with how much it accelerates reads, at least with benchmarks. I'll have to see how much of a difference it makes with day-to-day usage. If it turns out to be really significant I might think about getting one of the fancier P4800X 960GB Optane drives and partition a section off to be used for drive-level caching (like changing the Windows Temp folder location, or changing the VRChat cache folder) and the rest for Optane/Primocache stuff. I wish I had deep enough pockets for the P5800X, but those are over $1000 @_@


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Very much ready to not build another PC for at least another half-decade..... After getting everything assembled I ran into issues just getting windows installed and had to mix and match parts to figure out just what was fucking up and causing bluescreens left and right. Eventually narrowed it down to the RAM which I returned, going to get new RAM now and hopefully the new sticks aren't broken....


I feel like the RAM sticks are always the most dodgy part of building a new computer. I had issues, you had issues, my brother had issues.


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Maybe too late (and you probably knew anyway), but if you only had 2 sticks you connected them in the designated dual channel setup, right?


I did screw that up at first, and then when I fixed it it still wasn't working. Also my ideal setup had 4x16 so each slot was filled when it was crashing.


Noticed one great quality of life thing from doing this. Pretty often I'll be looking in a folder and want to change the sorting, like by size, date, type, and so on. Normally, after changing the sort type it could take upwards of a minute or two to wait for the folder to get sorted, but now it's instant! Very happy about this.


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Heh, I know someone who'd be really jealous of this steady 60 on Ultra-Nightmare settings.

Also feels nice to finally feel like I have a PC that can handle anything.


Reviews for the 7950X3D are finally out!! Honestly... I'm not entirely sure about it :/

The performance isn't really spectacular and seems to be hampered by the fact that only one CCD has the 3D V-Cache so only half of the CPU is really being leveraged in games. For a $700 part that doesn't really perform much better than an i7-13700K, it's honestly pretty terrible value. Potentially the 7800X3D will prove to be better since it's a single CCD design, meaning that there's no core-to-core latency when accessing the 3D V-Cache. It'd probably be the best value CPU of this generation, priced at $450, but... AM5 motherboards still suck in terms of pricing and the requirement for DDR5 is also kinda lame.

Sigh... If only I wanted to build a PC a year from now when AM5 and DDR5 are cheaper... As is, Intel is better value, even on a dead platform, since the parted out price different between an AM5 and LGA1700 build is like a difference of $500 in Intel's favor (For the parts I would want, of course). I had a feeling it would be something like this, but it's still disappointing. Guess I'll probably be building an Intel build unless AM5 motherboards collapse in prices or if more reviews come out and show that the 3D V-Cache has an insane performance uplift for some games I care about.


Are you ever going to build that PC?


Not at this rate ;_;


Based on the benchmarks I've seen, if the games are correctly sent to the CCD with the extra cache then it blows everything else out of the water. Ideally it's the best of both worlds with a 7800x3D for games that use the cache and a 7800x for games and other programs that don't use it, all in one package. Of course, it all depends on how well the scheduler can manage the processes and send things to the correct chiplet. I'm not so sure about the Windows Xbox game bar solution, but apparently on Linux you can manually set which cores programs are run on. I think that would make this the best CPU you could buy.


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>Of course, it all depends on how well the scheduler can manage the processes and send things to the correct chiplet.
This is something that's being sticking in the back of my mind; for as expensive and performant as the 7950X3D is, I would want it to last around 3-5 years, maybe. But, with how frankly radically CPUs have been changing over the past few years, and how few CPUs even have this issue of trying to direct processes to cores that have more frequency or more cache... It really makes me wonder what the long-term driver support will be like compared to a 7800X3D which will be a comparatively more straight forward monolithic design.

For example, it's sometimes possible when looking at benchmarks to find that a GPU performs worse than it did at launch after a few years because of driver optimizations made to benefit newer hardware. And what with the functionality of your CPU being tied to an arbitrary piece of software - Xbox game bar -- everything feels so tenuous, like in a few years programs might not care about core scheduling that benefits the 7950X3D because of some newer type of design.

In my view, this is not something that Intel's CPUs will likely have to contend with due to the big.LITTLE -- performance cores and efficiency cores -- core architecture being a much more enduring processor design philosophy; It makes far more sense to schedule background tasks on slower cores that draw less power than it does to have faster cores that require much more power. For example, if you were playing a game and had a browser in the background, which would be preferable: dedicating faster cores to that browser, which then affects the total CPU package draw, affecting performance, or to use slower cores that don't have much impact? To me, this seems a fairly open and shut case, and yet I regularly see people saying that efficiency cores are a gimmick and should just be turned off because they generate heat which is astounding to me!


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The scheduling that takes advantage of P/E cores only exists on Windows 11 which a lot prefer to avoid.
Neither Windows 10 (will never be) nor Linux (for now) are aware of this which makes CPU-hungry games to be frequently scheduled to E cores and results in stuttering.


>The scheduling that takes advantage of P/E cores only exists on Windows 11 which a lot prefer to avoid.
That's not really tenable though. I believe it will become increasingly more and more common for heterogeneous CPU architectures to show up in desktop processors and the fact that AMD already relies on a chiplet design, that AMD would consider releasing a CPU with differing levels of cache on each CCD, that Intel has embraced the big.LITTLE CPU architecure, and that Intel plans to move to chiplet-based CPUs in the future is more than enough proof of all of that already.

Maybe if you plan on sticking it out on Pre-12th gen Intel or an AM4 AMD CPU you can stay on Windows 10 for a few more years, but eventually by force of CPU design trends, I believe you will have to move to Windows 11 in order to take advantage of its enhanced thread scheduler.

It would not surprise me at all if in a few years time AMD releases CPUs that have efficiency cores on one CCD and performance cores on another CCD.

That's all water under the bridge in terms of whether or not CPUs like the 7950X3D and 7900X3D will or won't be affected negatively by any potential future changes to how Windows 11 handles thread scheduling, however.


>handles thread scheduling
and core parking


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My PC building saga is soon to come to a close! I gave it a long think and decided I'm okay with sticking with Intel since the Ryzen 7000 CPUs aren't that great of an improvement as I was hoping, and rumor has it Intel is going to release a Raptor lake refresh sometime towards the end of the year (presumably because they won't be able to meet the deadline of releasing desktop Meteor Lake CPU this year), so in theory I could have a CPU to upgrade to at a later date if I start getting CPU bound in the future and don't want to upgrade my motherboard.

And, well, uh... against my better judgement I bought a 4090. I should have most of the remaining parts coming in tomorrow and then the building will (finally) commence!


Oh, I almost forgot: one major thing that made me choose Intel over AMD is that for whatever reason using more than 2 sticks of RAM causes the maximum supported DDR5 timing to drop to like 3200 MT/s, which is down from like 5600 MT/s as the base spec for 1-2 sticks of DDR5 on AM5. From what I can tell, Intel doesn't have this issue and I may choose to upgrade my RAM capacity to 128GB for AI stuff.


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Is there any AI stuff that uses regular RAM? I've only seen VRAM mentioned. I'm not sure anyone will be "future proofing" anything AI related with how fast things have been changing


Just that Facebook Llama thing, I think. I recall reading a Github post saying that it was using 80GB of RAM. I'm not sure about other stuff, but I'm definitely interested in testing that one out.


RAM is in a weird place right now. Corsair recently announced 24GB and 48GB DDR5 sticks, but their speeds are pretty slow and with not great timings (5200 ~ 5600 MT/s CL40). 96GB would be nice. Will probably be a few months before other manufacturers or Corsair themselves release better kits. DDR5 in general has dropped in price a bit lately as faster kits come out.

Likewise, SSD prices have really come down recently.


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Graph showing the clear descent in SSD pricing.


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Was looking at case fans and saw this thing. Hilarious. 70 freaking decibels!!


Been learning about NAS's, hypervisors, and server stuff recently since I've been in desperate need of a NAS for the longest time (most of my data is strewn across 6 USB external drives with no backups). Mostly I've been doing this just for my own entertainment since this stuff is expensive! I was initially at fairly pedestrian hardware but upon further investigation it seems that using ZFS with TrueNAS really requires ECC RAM as a best practice.

Some interesting things I've learned are that old enterprise stuff can be very cheap and sometimes still quite expensive. For instance, you can get good Mellanox SFP 10GbE and 40GbE PCIe NICs for anywhere from $30 to $100. Pretty reasonable. Meanwhile, HBAs -- "Host Bus Adapters" -- meant for expanding the amount of connected storage devices are really variable in price depending on how new or old they are. Something like an LSI 9211-8i -- which allows adding 8 additional SAS 6Gb/s or SATA 6Gb/s drives -- can go for around $30. More newer HBAs like an LSI 9400-16i, which would support 16 SAS 12Gb/s or 16 SATA 6Gb/s or 4 NVME PCIe 3.0 x4 SSDs, goes for around $300 at a minimum. Another interesting thing I've noticed is that despite a lot of this hardware being pretty extreme relative to normal desktop requirements, a lot of these cards are often only PCIe 2.0 or PCIe 3.0, which I found surprising; this, however, can be a bit of an annoyance if you want to use them with newer hardware, since PCIe is lane-based. Meaning, although your HBA might only be PCIe 2.0 x8, if you slot it into a PCIe 4.0 x16 slot running at x4, you're only going to be able to run that HBA at PCIe 2.0 x4 speeds despite PCIe 4.0 x4 being equivalent to PCie 2.0 x16 in terms of bandwidth. Also... Apparently, there's an issue with cards out of China being counterfeited and/or broken. Not surprising, but unfortunate seeing as parts out of there are often much cheaper.

Storage is really a big concern, and that's meant looking into how ZFS works, what certain vdev's are used for, best practices in regards to number of drives used, how pools can be expanded, and so on. For my window-shoping hypothetical build, I decided that it would be best to use RAIDz3 with 11 drives. I found that someone is selling old HGST 8TB drives in lots of 5 drives, of which I would buy 20, test them, and then use 11 drives for the RAIDz3 for a total capacity of 64TB of storage with 4 drives held as hot spares to be put into action to immediately begin rebuilding the RAID array in case a drive fails. With RAIDz3 up to 3 drives can fail simultaneously without any data loss, but if more than 3 drives die at the same time, the whole pool become irrecoverable. This is the main reason I thought about RAIDz3; RAIDz2 and RAIDz1, 2 drive and 1 drive failure tolerance respectively, seemed far too risky for the amount of data my hypothetical NAS would have. In regards to performance, RAIDz3 with 11 drives would have a read speed improvement of 8x (8 drives are used in parity and the extra 3 are just used for redundancy). Since those HGST drives have a read speed of around 200MB/s that would mean a read speed of around 1.6GB/s, which would be faster than 10GbE NIC I paired it with since 10GbE tops out at around 1.2GB/s. Downside is that there's no write speed improvement, meaning unimpressive 200MB/s writes. For a NAS, however, that's perfectly acceptable.


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In terms of software and managing everything, the best candidate would be to use a type 1 hypervisor such as VMWare ESXi or Proxmox and to then virtualize whatever's necessary. So, for example, for managing all of that storage, I would pass through the HBA card with the 15 HGST drives to a TrueNAS Core virtual machine and then let it manage ZFS. For other things, it's just a matter of spinning up more virtual machines. So, for instance, you could start a VM for a Plex media server, minecraft server, a DDNS service, a Windows VM (with GPU passthrough), Bittorent, and so on. Even modest hardware is capable of running a bunch of linux VMs so it's really not that much of an issue, although more cores helps. You might be wondering, though, "Couldn't you do a lot of that stuff as docker containers?" and the answer is: sure, you definitely could. From what I understand, however, the main benefit from running things as virtual machines is that you're able to do more complex networking, and you don't have to worry about utilization as much.

In my research I also decided to look at enterprise hardware to see what sort of cost-benefit there is to running prosumer hardware versus dedicated rackmount enterprise gear. And, the conclusions were interesting: AMD EPYC beats the shit out of lower end Intel Xeons. For a "low end" server that's around ~$3000, you could either get an AMD EPYC server (ignoring RAM and storage cost) that has 16 cores, 32 threads and performs about as well as an Intel i5-13600K, or you could get a Xeon server that performs about as well as your grandparents laptop. Seriously, talking about a Passmark CPU score of around ~2000 for the low-end Xeon versus around ~40,000 for the EPYC CPU. I had heard that AMD was becoming more competitive in server, but I didn't realize it was like this... Anyways, tangent aside, the system I parted out was around ~$1200 cheaper and should perform approximately the same. Enterprise price configurators really fleece buyers parts like a 480GB SAS SSD cost ~$700 each, and 1TB SATA HDDs cost around ~$500. That's the main reason for excluding those, otherwise the price differential would have been insane, and anyone worth their salt would know to buy their own drives and RAM rather than spending an arm and leg on what's essentially entry-level hardware. The main advantage those servers have is how many PCIe lanes they have. That EPYC system from before had 128 lanes of PCIe, whereas desktop CPUs are only 40 lanes of PCIe at best. At least, the more recent Intel chipsets are, that is. I'm not familiar with AMD motherboards.

I'd really like to build this system at some point, but for now it's just a nice fantasy to dream about. Oh well. It's been fun thinking about, at least, and I'm a bit more educated for it. The most fun part is probably cost-optimizing. If only there was a site like pcpartpicker that was dedicated more towards old enterprise gear to figure out what the very price to performance system is.


Oh, I forgot to mention: the main thing that spurred all this investigation for me was that I was pretty unimpressed with how expensive and retrictive Synology NAS's are.


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SO, uhh... what's a NAS?
And what exactly are you doing with all this storage? Storing media? It reminds me that I need to download a whole bunch of ROM sets for a lot of games systems. I wanted to do it a decade ago but the storage just wasn't there.


>SO, uhh... what's a NAS?
A NAS is Network Attached Storage. Basically, instead of having a hard drive in your PC, you put it into a server and then can access all of that storage through your home network. Instead of mounting like 10 different disks for storage you would set up a RAID pool that combines all of your drives in a single drive for both redundancy and speed improvements.

>And what exactly are you doing with all this storage? Storing media?
Well... It's mostly just an exercise in window shopping and what sort of options there are out there. If I had that sort of money to actually build such a system it would pretty much offload all of my media, torrenting, and other things. I've currently got around 26TB worth of external drives, but they're mostly filled up and I worry about using them too often if they were to die. It would also just be nice to host AI stuff on it so I don't have to worry about my main PC being taxed by it. It might also be handy to set up automatic backups of my PC so that if I broke anything or if one of my drives died, I had a backup.


>Oh, I forgot to mention: the main thing that spurred all this investigation for me was that I was pretty unimpressed with how expensive and retrictive Synology NAS's are.
They're quite shit. Got one and regretted that I didn't get a normal computer with lots of hard drive bays.


>Basically, instead of having a hard drive in your PC, you put it into a server and then can access all of that storage through your home network
Oh, would that really be useful? I'm not sure what I'd do that in that situation that would be worth the decrease in speed. Are you low on space inside the computer or on your desk?


There really shouldn't be a speed decrease. The read speed of RAID is a multiple of the read speed of however many disk you have. So, with RAIDz3 and 11 disks (3 used for parity, 8 for capacity), there's an 8x increase in reads. So, for a standard HDD reading at 200MB/s, you would have read speeds of 1.6GB/s, which itself is faster than 10Gb ethernet.

>Are you low on space inside the computer or on your desk?
That's not really the point... My PC has two hard drive bays, sure, and I could put some high capacity drives in there, but there wouldn't be any redundancy; if my drives died, that'd be it. Everything gone. It would also just be nice to be able to access my media from multiple devices instead of just from my PC. So, for example, if I had a Plex server on the NAS, I could stream my anime collection to my phone.


Hmm, I thought raid was one or the other- speed or redundancy. You can combine them? Is there not some weird multiplicative effect where you're running out the drives faster than usual?


Surprising that Asus got caught up in killing X3D CPUs. I figured they were one of the better brands...


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got a new dual tower cpu cooler to replace the stock cooler, and added 2 rear case fans
chose the Thermalright SilverSoul 135 because my case has 140mm height clearance, and pretty much it's the only dual tower cooler in this category with a 120mm fan
installed it and the rear fans so that the cooler fan blows through the fins directly to the case fan
now the pc is 10-15c cooler than before, runs faster, while also being much quieter!
the cooler performs very well despite only cost $30

also got a 3090 in the meantime


Don't really know much about monitors, does this look good?

I'm not looking for anything too fancy, and I won't be using curved monitors or dual/triple monitor setups.


Looks alright. I've never heard of that brand and it not being height-adjustable is kind of eh, but the reviews look pretty good. If you care about gaming, I think VA panels are typically a bit slower than IPS and TN panels, but are a bit better at contrast? I can't quite remember.


165hz is a terrible refresh rate, which is not divisible by 24 or 30, so there will be stuttering effect when viewing videos.
144hz is more common so they should also be available for cheap, and is divisible by 24.
VA also has bad response time, and those with much less have overshoot artifacts. IPS is superior in all possible ways other than contrast.
The only reason to buy this is because the brand name looks like koruri.


need a megu edit of that thumbnail

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