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File:521b26a71ed5695f4af45fc65….jpeg (780.25 KB,853x1204)

 No.75134

Is art created for the express purpose of being consumed any worse than art that is created out of personal desire?

Arguably, most anime (particularly adaptations) is designed for consumption, rather than out of free-flowing creativity. Does this make such art lesser if people still enjoy it? Where does one draw the line between "marketized art" and "creative art" and is there even a difference?

 No.75149

I don't think that's necessarily the case, but most of the time I'd argue a commercialized product is much worse off than one created by passion, like Disney vs Ghibli. In a way, with most LNs being from teenaged otaku, I'd say anime has a better standing with having more free-form creativity than other media, since the ones writing the scripts most likely aren't cynical marketers or suit executives. The only thing I'd really say is that the line between marketized art and creative art is whether a committee thought up the idea or if it's a lazy adaptation made for the sole purpose of getting people to buy the source material.

 No.75153

File:90825320_p0.png (5.39 MB,2740x4096)

>>75149
As an example of when I'd probably put a work of marketized art over a creative art, I'd take a new precure any day of the week over some teens new genius idea for an isekai that's totally different from all the others this time I swear.

 No.75156

>>75134
Nearly every piece of art ever was created on commission

 No.75158

>>75156
Artists need to eat too, I know. I thought about mentioning the difference between games produced by massive studios vs indie developers, but I felt the OP was getting a little long if I threw that in too.

 No.75159

File:altamira_bisons.jpeg (273.55 KB,1280x853)

Commissioned by Og-brug of the true arrow, in celebration of the hunt where he fell 5 bison in one raid.
Art done by the famed painter Grukgalog.

 No.75162

The two aren't mutually exclusive. I'd say what matters most is how much say the artists have. Anime is usually meant to promote a product, but it's also very artist driven.

 No.75163

File:chen_slap.png (40.23 KB,245x212)

no

 No.75166

>>75159
You can recognize it's a classic for it being ahead of its time.

 No.75167

File:1587578486581.jpg (412.35 KB,672x658)

pseud thread

 No.75168


 No.75169

File:proper art.jpg (96.7 KB,980x1392)

There's a gradient. Take the music industry for example. At one end you have designed-by-committee artless products, e.g. most pop music. Dig deeper and you'll find smaller artists and bands that create music on a much smaller scale--much less money or fame, but also much more control, leading to bigger potential for "true" art. Yet these works are still intended to appeal to some audience, even if it's just a small niche. At the furthest end of the spectrum, you have outsider art, made purely for the sake of the artist.
Being more artful needn't mean better however. The Adventures of Sonichu were purely born of personal desire, but you'd find few who'd praise CWC as a master mangaka.

That's enough pretension from me for the day though, I'm off to fap to some eromanga.

 No.75170

I think most great art has been commissioned or done for money, artists need to eat and such. These days "modern art" is just a money laundering and tax evasion scheme, but people with passion and skill are paid for it by media companies. This also allows them to draw their own free-spirited stuff on the side.

 No.75171

Most animes are based on managa and most managa are made out of personal desire. I would disagree that they are made for consumption.

 No.75173

>>75171
>Most animes are based on managa
That was sort of my point in saying, "particularly adaptations." Very rarely are anime not based on something, largely because it's safe to adapt an existing piece of work which will presumably have an existing fanbase both to watch and purchase merchandise, compared to starting a new IP with none of that.

 No.75174

>>75170
>These days "modern art" is just a money laundering and tax evasion scheme
I've heard people say this before and it's nonsense. The specific type of art you're talking about is made because it's easy to make, and sells because it's a status symbol. That's it really. Life sucks in boring, simple ways, not exciting and complex ones.

>people with passion and skill are paid for it by media companies

The latter, yes, the former, depends. If the corporations have too much control, you end up with the situation we have in the US, where projects are lead by non-artist executives who force the actually talented people to make complete garbage.

 No.75176

File:3fb197e95fe4dcdb31698c308e….jpg (308.12 KB,1800x1600)

The greatest artists don't need to work for others because they are born rich. Their arts are meant to be enjoyed by the same social hierarchy, not by working peasants with no time.

 No.75177

>>75173
Yes, and those manga are made by artists that make it because they want to, not for money(many are quite poor).

 No.75178

File:[MoyaiSubs] Mewkledreamy M….jpg (308.73 KB,1920x1080)

>>75174
I don't particularly see a huge difference in making a manga to sell or making an anime to sell.
In an ideal world everyone would follow their passion, but concessions are made so you can put food on the table. Doujin stuff can be different, yeah, since it's from people with primary income from somewhere else, though I don't think many artists would object to popularity explosions like ZUN.
Since the Fate gacha prints money Nasu can throw money around at passion products that really have no chance to approach money-making potential, like the (partial) Tsukihime remake. Although, it does make me wonder why he's doing it on console...

 No.75179

>>75176
And some of the greatest artists of all time lived from the scanty money from their families and friends, for their ouevres later to allure students who take part-time jobs to sustain their studying fees.

 No.75181

And actually, as the value of art is entirely in the eyes of the beholder(the consumer) then all, 'great' art could be said to have been made for the consumer or at least made popular because of the consumer.

 No.75182

>>75181
That's not what that phrase means.

 No.75183

>>75182
I don't care what the phrase means... I was using it literally.

 No.75184

>>75183
That's... no that's not how that works.

 No.75185

>>75184
Yes it is...

 No.75186

>>75185
But it's not. That's not what literally means either.

 No.75187

>>75186
It is.

'in a literal manner or sense; exactly.'

 No.75188

File:idiot cat is a genius.png (44.71 KB,217x294)


 No.75194

File:[SubsPlease] Mahouka Kouko….jpg (143.29 KB,1280x720)

I'm not sure if you want examples or not, but I think from the currently airing pool I'd select the Miyuki spinoff of Mahouka should be considered "Marketized". It feels as though attracting consumers based on a brand is its entire purpose. It has nothing really of substance aside from recognizable names and faces. The purpose of it is to showcase a character that's nearly always beside the main character in the original story and therefore there's quite a lack of "new" things they're able to showcase, and all the while the fun parts of the series seem to be cut, because they would just be repititions.

I guess in this case it would serve as evidence towards consumption media being worse than passionate art.

 No.75205

im kinda confused
what are some example series of what you'd consider "marketized art" and "creative art" op?

 No.75215

>>75205
>"marketized art"
[email protected] and gacha like Azur Lane. "Corporate art & music".

>"creative art"

Kino, Jin-Rog, Ping Pong, Planetes. I also don't think it needs saying, but check Pixiv... There's probably hundreds of thousands of artists pumping out quality work and yet without a Fanbox.

 No.75216

File:Corporate Mephis.png (101.89 KB,1200x867)

To extend on the corporate art & music thing, here's an example if you don't want to watch a youtube video on it. Also, here's an example from #qa that Anonymous entitled "corporate dubstep": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1IEYSJb8CM

 No.75217

File:1397576281635.jpg (45.67 KB,403x396)

>>75215
>Kino
I know what you mean but, it's always hilarious how if you switch the meaning around it becomes a /tv/ post.

 No.75355

File:firefox_1S6O99NsIH.png (154.67 KB,1917x1152)

>>75216
Speaking of ugly garbage corporate art...

 No.75356

>>75355
I'd prefer the thread not go in the direction of "look how ugly this thing that everyone hates is!" "I agree, this ugly thing looks bad! What were they thinking!?!?". When you've seen one thread like that you've seen them all.

 No.75357

>>75153
Odd to think of Precure as marketized but I guess it makes sense given it's a brand that Toei keeps pumping out new material for. Though, it's hard to accept given the negative connotation I usually attach to those words...

 No.75360

>>75357
>it's hard to accept given the negative connotation I usually attach to those words...
That's sort of what I meant to evoke in creating this thread.

 No.75362

File:89871792_p0.png (7.85 MB,2407x3341)

>>75360
That's what I ascertained from the OP too. I think rather than marketized vs not, the criteria for what usually produces good work is passion & effort. I'm sure there are some very passionate people in Toei animating the pretty Precures for their company and other talented individuals putting work into the scripts, while on the other hand you have some jackass LN author writing his power fantasy like Death March which gets a shitty adaptation probably slaved for by koreans with the bare minimum put into production so that more people can know of the LN title, since nobody cares for it. Obviously Toei's method results in the better overall work even though the concept for this season most likely wasn't one person's artistic idea.

 No.75665

So what about series that never end, or ones that exist purely to advertise some other work such as a VN or manga? This seems like a pretty big downside to art being marketized.




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