>>153410
doing the core2k word-only cards was suffering when I tried it and I can confidently say that I don't remember a single fucking thing from that attempt
ended up finding a tango order sentence card deck and I can absolutely feel the difference in retention and being able to recognize the word in media

but it is also just slower

>>153432
Nobody disagrees that phonetics are important, but your advice is rather vague and not particularly helpful either. Are you truly arguing he shouldn't learn to read until he can perfectly hear what's being said?
>Sounds matched to text.
There's a lot of words whose correct writing is semantically determined, not phonetically. Miru, ageru, noboru, kakeru, hakaru, all have multiple graphical forms which come from the exact same spoken word and denote different shades of meaning. Or the on'yomi homonyms that are only distinguished in writing, which is not at all rare for literary Chinese.
>>153433
Give it a try and see what you struggle with. You didn't know what the te-form was until a couple days ago, so it'll be a lot, but for you it's probably a necessary experience.
>>153436
¥

>>153438
my

$1

FUARKING

god

>>153433
g[/s]oon[s |]er

>>153438
>Are you truly arguing he shouldn't learn to read until he can perfectly hear what's being said?
yes, until you can reliably indentify nearly every phoneme of the language in naturalistic speech, it is pointless to try learning how to read. At least in the case of languages with a limited number of phonemes. As a matter of fact, I know that Chinese is taught that way, even if it is slightly more compressed.
The very first thing being taught is the identification of the phonemes. This issue is even more pronounced in Chinese, because it is completely pointless to even try learning it without 1. knowing all the sounds and 2. hearing the sounds while studying Hànzì.

Japanese has some additional nonsense thrown in, but fundamentally the process is the same. Learn to hear the language, the study the language.

>>153439
Our TARDGAMI to be WRANGLED by the LIBERATOR Yukito.
>>153442
Then you must realize that it's also the case that learners are taught basic phonetics, usually lacking in the details of allophony and native shortcuts. It's also the case that native speakers regularly use semantic and syntactic context to get around the slurring that occurs in all languages, comprehension is not dependent on just phonetics. I'm not arguing that he shouldn't be able to hear, of course, but he doesn't need to know the variance in the intervocalic and final realizations of ん before he starts reading. It's the ultimate chicken and egg situation, and exclusivity in any direction without guidance will hamper him.

Oh yeah, but if the learner in question wants to get a solid grasp of the theory, I think the best I can recommend is Dogen's course:
https://nyaa.si/view/1497535
It's first pitch accent until #33 (the very important chapter on vowel devoicing), but since pitch in Japanese is a) not highly contrastive, and b) particularly hard to reproduce, I recommend skipping starting with the phoneme episodes. He covers tons of stuff, and is the overall best resource on Japanese phonetics that I know of.

>>153444
fair enough, I but I still think that the base level required to learn how to read is somewhat higher than zero.

Can someone please translate this meme I found at 2chan?

>>153527
it says in the middle "the guy that hates everything in this world"
he is positively steaming

I'm trying to find what this kanji is, but radical lookup isn't giving this one. Could anyone help?

>>153865
it's 噌, used in miso
you can easily find it by looking up other characters with the same component in wiktionary (増, 僧, 憎) and then at the top in the translingual or chinese sections click on the shared element (曾) and THEN looking at its list of descendants find the one you're looking for
it's usually more consistent and quicker than trying to figure out what radicals the RADKFILE guys decided to tag it as having (in this case it's 并日田 for 曽 and ハ日 for 曾, moderately nonsensical), especially in cases such as this one where some instances of old vs new are encoded as pairs (增/増) while others only change depending on font (僧, 噌, 憎)

>>153867
I was wondering if it was a font thing since I saw 噌 in the lookup (searching by 日田ハ口 radicals), but it wasn't 'exact' to how it is on the page, so I kept looking.
Thanks.

>>153865
>>153868
Use https://kanji.sljfaq.org/mrj.html and "build" the kanji, it's better than radical search. Or just draw it on google translate or something, it should be able to find it no matter how bad your handwriting is.

>>153869
I've been using https://jisho.org/#radical to put things together, but thanks for the link.

>>153869
this is the same system used by jisho or takoboto, and i believe generally what people refer to as radical search (given jisho's preponderance)

>>153871
Oh. Bit of a misnomer, then. Kanji only have one radical.

>>153873
technically, yes, but there are a lot of publications that by "radical" mean "basic codified grapheme"
in the context of this conversation, 曾 was originally a visual representation of a basket, as you can see here and here, showing a square body with two straps, but this was later segmented and simplified and nowadays 曽 looks closer to 日+田, it would not be unreasonable to call them its radicals
indeed if you look at kanjipedia's entry, its 部首 is said to be 曰 (not 日), even though this is also ultimately ahistorical and not particularly useful today, humanum is more accurate in listing 曾 as itself being its sole unique component, but you're not going to find it as such in any kangxi-based dictionary

At the last section of Essential Grammar in Tae Kim. This theory stuff is really starting to get impractical.
Core 2000 part 2 should be done today as well.

Meaning time to create a new plan that can get me to a JLPT4 standard. One with like no theoretical learning.
Core 2000 part 3 is supposed to be the most complicated words in the set. I remember getting stumped on some of them in the past. But overall, just switch to reading and pulling out important words from literature and media. Then doing vocabulary memorization of those

>>153868
Here are some other kanji that might also confuse you due to font differences.
For these kanji in particular, I found these pages helpful for better understanding what these differences are and why they exist:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230603010448/https://fontnavi.jp/zakkuri/304-jis2004_jis90.aspx
https://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ax2s-kmtn/ref/jis2000-2004.html
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/JIS2004

I keep getting filtered by kanji. I had learned katakana in 2023 using Duolingo and now I learned it again but I don't know what to do next because kanji is too much for my retard brain.

>>154054
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/1607129785
at least until part3

>>154054
Delete Duol*ngo from your internet history, for your own good. It does not teach grammar, it teaches you how to reorder words how they want you to and it is not good. It is not good for learning kanji or words either.
Learn some basic grammar, learn to recognize a few hundred kanji and some thousand or two thousand words, and start reading erotic novels about little girls going to the park and eating ice cream. You might wanna start with a manga though, pictures can help with context in the beginning until you get used to things. Mokuro (ocr manga) is great in combination with Yomitan (web browser hover over any word for dictionary lookup).

For grammar, maybe read through tae kim.
You can also try DOJG and DOJG deck
https://core6000.neocities.org/dojg/
https://dojgdeck.neocities.org/
It will streamline your learning a bit if you need a kick in the back to know where to walk in the beginning.

If you really REALLY struggle to tell kanji apart you can try something like https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/1722008986 this "radical" deck to learn some basic components. The names are not official and they are not actually radicals.
After that I think kaishi 1.5k is maybe better than core 2k or core6k https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/1196762551 but I honestly didn't use either of them so I can't say for sure. I just know kaishi is suposed to be hyper specific for people who want to start immersing immediately which everyone should want to.
You'll want to mine your own words anyways, it's easier when your reviews and new words are all words you've recently tried reading. Misunderstandings can be cleared up over time when a sentence doesn't make sense with context, then you look into the word causing issues due to multiple meanings or a vaguely different meaning than you thought.

>>154054
参考になれれば嬉しい限りです。

>>154056
I don't use duo anymore, I learnt katakana from tofugu this time.
> to recognize a few hundred kanji and some thousand or two thousand wo
You shouldn't say that so lightly, "just learn 100+ alphabet bro" but I suppose I have no choice. I will also use these links, I was looking for resources.
>>154055
Thank
>>154061
Wakaranai :(

>>154062
>I learnt katakana from tofugu this time.
I assume you mean kana. Katakana is アイウエオ, Hiragana is あいうえお. Kana is the word for both of them, basically not Kanji. If you mean you only learned Katakana then before you do anything else you need to learn Hiragana. Hiragana is pretty much everywhere in Japanese. Katakana is mostly used for emphasis or loan words.
>You shouldn't say that so lightly, "just learn 100+ alphabet bro" but I suppose I have no choice. I will also use these links, I was looking for resources.
I have forgotten a little bit of what it is to start out. I remember it was hard, but I was stubborn and kept going. You will need to learn thousands of words and a ton of squigglies. That's the reality. It will happen over time, not in one day. It's okay. It gets easier at some point.

Anki is magic. It's scientifically designed to help you learn a lot fast by having you recall what something is right before you forget it and expanding the durations over time. It's not perfect, the words you will truly understand are the ones you've seen over and over in context, but it's a good way to bootstrap your beginning.
You can take it kinda slow in the beginning, it's the hardest part for most people since everything is new and you don't have any prior information to build on and they really can't read to retain information. You will mix up words a lot, you will mix up kanji a lot. Failure is learning. Fail a lot, every day. Anki will remind you of your failures, every day. Stay strong, there's nothing wrong with you the beginning is just difficult.
I don't know how much you can handle, but I started with only a few kanji a day and like five words a day because I was afraid of failure. This obviously didn't get me very far, but it was difficult enough until I could get over my fear of failing to remember something. You could probably manage this amount to some extent. You will probably forget the words a few times before you remember them, it's okay. When you start getting the hang of it you can try upping to 7 words, 10 words, and so on. I started doing 20 a day after about 3 months by slowly pushing my limits. I do more than this now, but you really don't have to and reviews will cut into immersion time. Just don't go nuts adding 50 words because they will pile up and you will probably forget half of them and reviews will be completely unmanagable in a matter of days or weeks.

I didn't touch any grammar in the beggining and just focused on kanji and words for some time until I felt I was used to that and wanted more, at least it made the example sentence words readable.
If you're struggling with grammar whenever you start that, maybe the first 12 videos in this Cure Dolly playlist will help:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSvH9vH60Ig&list=PLg9uYxuZf8x_A-vcqqyOFZu06WlhnypWj
I stopped at the first 12 and moved on to other resources, but it felt helpful at the time when I didn't even understand the core concepts and reading was hurting my brain. No idea about the rest of the videos, didn't watch them.
Sorry to overload you with information, but take your time. It's gonna take a while.

>Wakaranai :(
I just wanted to leave a cute kanji picture that you will look back on one day and go "oh I know this". The text basically says something to the amount of "I will be delighted if this can be useful to you" although not literally that.

https://dokushoclub.com/free-reading-resources/n4-free-reading-resources/
Gonna try and tackle a book or two for a month until I switch over to N3 grade for the rest of the year, I figure

My 1 month N4 speedrun ciriculum is probably going to be something like this... it's designed to gateway me into not being completely out of depth approaching N3 graded content and communication topics during the months of June/July.

Raw Vocab+Kanji :
Core 2000 Part 3 along with already studied 1 & 2
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/1752619191
Supposedly the hardest in the original Core 2000 set?
- overall 600+ kanji in sentences

Literary Reading:
n4 books
https://dokushoclub.com/2025/04/25/n4-the-human-chair/
Along with 2 other selections from:
https://dokushoclub.com/free-reading-resources/n4-free-reading-resources/
- Pick out vocabulary I don't know and memorize them from 3 books

Mixed media entertainment:
Anime/Eroge/Games
Not for purpose of vocabulary but casual understanding of media.
Cheating allowed for better engagement with material.
- 3 major titles for the month

Listening:
Audiodrama/ASMR etc.
Be able to hear words in casual settings.
Applying learned vocabulary with a vocal settings.
- 1 title per week

Goal: Hit a strong enough beginner level that I can begin to tackle intermediate topics and approach dynamic+real world language scenarios using tools and learned skills.

>>154065
I learnt Hiragana. My brain is fried, fuck.
I'm a wagie so I will try to use what little time I usually have to follow this advice. Going slow is the key for me. Going too fast makes me forget.
>I just wanted to leave a cute kanji picture that you will look back on one day and go "oh I know this"
Hope I get there one day anon.

Something kinda concerning about the listening training is how I can't actually look up words on the fly so I have to just make mental note of everything I don't understand and try to make associations with vocabulary I'll learn later.

Very hard to get vocabulary training out of listening

This site looks pretty great.
https://yomuyomu.app/lessons/courses/2-the-human-chair?chapter=2
If I get value out of it I'll probably get 2 months worth of subscription on it

>>154094
the secret to listening, as insane as it may sound is "to just understand it". What is crucial for that is film. You want to watch film (or anime, I suppose), so you can SEE the subject of the conversation. If you know WHAT they are talking about, you can make connections much more easily.
A central aspect in studying by listening is being comfortable with not understanding. Your brain is good enough to handle all this, as long as you can understand the words.

>>154094
Have you tried using the memento video player? It has yomichan built-in for Japanese subtitles, so you can look stuff up.

>>154097
true enough. I was thinking of approaching listening the same way you do in an academic setting with the cassette tapes just playing things like interviews, expecting you to the fill out a questionaire to show you understood it or not.
Having the visual cues is much more realistic. Still I think I will do both, but I should place more emphasis on the visual parts of listening

>>154100
pick a movie, any movie.
Preferably one you have already seen before and just watch it in your target language with subtitles in your target language and try to keep up. That's all there is to listening practice.
It'll be grueling and not very fun, but it works quite well.

>>154101
Was picking that movie part of your plan?

>>154101
dubfags would tell you they're unable to hear the difference between hardy's peerless performance and that of yamaji

>>154102
もちろんだ

>>154104
honestly, the place scene is such a masterpiece of acting. Aidan Gillen's performance of CIA is one of the highest points of cinema in the previous decade.

Flashcards are too addicting... It's like the only thing I can do consistently with little push. I know I need to stop doing them but I can just pull out my phone and run out 300 of them for 30 minutes and then feel like I've done enough

>>154308
Used to do the same thing, but didn't feel like it wasn't enough. My goal was remembering as much kanji/vocab as I could, and I was doing it everyday for 2+ hours for at least a year; came out remembering a shit ton of kanji. The readings at least... Writing goes away as soon as you stop anki (if you were practicing writing). I don't know the deck you're using, but the deck I was using also gave audio/text examples of the kanji in use so it worked immersion as well.

>>154308
I wake up, drink my coffee, do my flashcards, then read and watch stuff the rest of the day. Flashcards are a chore, but not one I dislike doing. You don't need to stop doing them, but you need to get addicted to something else in addition. If you really need some numbers to motivate yourself, start chasing numbers on anidb/mal/al, mydramalist, vndb, and such. Feel accomplishment in your "hours immersed" statistic that you can look at and go, wow I used Japanese a lot this month.

Besides, need to mine new cards.

This yomuyomu.app website actually has a flashcard builder where you can save kanji from their articles and stories... it's something I've wanted for hgames earlier this year but would have had to manually build myself.

Speaking of which, has anyone built their own decks before?

>>154328
>it's something I've wanted for hgames earlier this year but would have had to manually build myself.
Textractor + Yomitan give one click cards in eroge. You can then use a kanji addon to check all your mined kanji if you want to go over them individually. You can also configure it to allow setting up kanji cards in addition to words, but you'll have to do each kanji manually as you see them.
Makes it easy to start immersing fast.

>>154329
The standard is to start with something like 1.5k kaishi or 2k core and start mining from there on. You should automate it as much as possbile for the things you immerse with. I've mined 15k cards this year while reading and watching things. >>152367 Use these for mining from anime and manga effortlessly. If I see a word relatively frequently, but keep forgetting it, I put it on top the pile so I can focus on learning it immediately and stop wasting time looking it up.

https://learnjapanese.moe/vn/
https://learnjapanese.moe/yomichan/

>>154328
WAITWAITWAIT
YOU DIDN'T LOOK AT https://lazyguidejp.github.io/jp-lazy-guide/ YET?
DO IT RIGHT NOW

>>154331
yeah, I just put them into a spreadsheet and said I'd do it later

It's surprisingly easy to write out kanji once you get the knack for the typical writting patterns of horizontal bars, then vertical lines. With a couple of exceptions.
When I get the gist of that I can start to do repetition drills in the form of Look, Cover, Write, Check ... something which is apparently only really drilled into you in the UK elementary school system ... and memorize words at a more reliable rate than flashcards.



>>154331
I guess the audio capture in ShareX is what you're trying to point out?
I dunno. There's so much other teaching material that gives you what you're looking for without having to set up text and audio extractors.
And for this other stuff outside of teaching material... Kinda superstitious like where I think that putting in more effort to find something means you'll remember it better

something else to just gripe about with it is that it doesnt have the intonation built in like YomuYomu. But I think it pronounces correctly