Prototype seifukus worn by real life Hime-samas. Circa 1896 year of our Kamis.

>>126813
It's interesting that it was originally a military naval uniform. It shouldn't theoretically be cute that way, but it just is. The French maid outfit is another history though. By the time it got popular in Japan it was strongly associated with eroticism.

>>126814
>It's interesting that it was originally a military naval uniform.
Lots of feminine fashion originated with the military.
Corsets, high heels, pickelhauben, standard sizes (though that's used by both genders)...

>>126815
>Corsets, high heels
This is not really military to my knowledge, but rather upper class fashion. Also, long hair, makeup, leggings and frills which are seen as feminine today were all upper class fashion as well, particularly during the Age of Enlightenment.

>pickelhauben
How is a military helmet "feminine fashion"? I couldn't find any info about this.

>>126816
>This is not really military to my knowledge,
Corsets were how plate armor in medieval Europe was supported on a man's body. Without a corset, the weight has to rest on the shoulders which makes moving your arms quite awkward.
High heels were originally invented for cavalry purposes.
Both high heels and corsets were therefore obviously signifiers of status, given that neither plate armor nor war horses were cheap, and that's how they made their debuts into fashion.

>How is a military helmet "feminine fashion"?
That was a joke, sorry. As a rule, I never make any lists without at least one joke item.

>>126811
Sailor uniforms existed before in Europe, I've seen pretty cool picture of girls wearing them in eighteen something.

>>126817
>Corsets were how plate armor in medieval Europe was supported on a man's body.
Would you be perhaps referring to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigandine It's not really a corset. It only bears some slight resemblance to it. It was a garment used underneath the armor.

>High heels were originally invented for cavalry purposes
According to what I've read about it, it was only really used by Persians in that context, to hold the feet in the stirrups. Otherwise it was invented in Egypt and wore mostly by the aristocracy.

>>126819
>It's not really a corset.
It was sufficiently tight to bear 20+ pounds of weight without sliding. And it kickstarted the male wasp waist fashion, that you will find across medieval art. Pic related. No, it was not technically a corset yet. It was the corset's mother, so to speak.

>it was only really used by Persians in that context
Riding boots to this day have a pronounced heel. So no. The cavalry use is how the high heel came to Europe. And the ancient Egyptians did not create a gap in between the raised heel and the rest of the sole. The Persian cavalry-related invention is clearly its own thing.

>>126821
>Riding boots to this day have a pronounced heel. So no.
Yeah, but those were boots, not really heeled shoes like something Louis XIV wore: >>126816 The Persian version looks more similar to that. The Romans and medieval knights also didn't really use that. Romans didn't use stirrups at all and knights held their feet on it using spores, not heels.

>>126823
Indeed. This is actually another indication that the invention is not connected to the Egyptians. In Persia, the high heel arose in the 10th century. They did not really come to Europe until about 1600.

Fun fact, after studying aboard in Europe and England Utako came back home and pushed for women's rights in Japan. She pushed for women to become the lords of their own homes and to become more involved with fields like nursing and teaching. Especially during times of war.

One observation she brought back with her was the fact that European men treated their wives better than Japanese men. So she started encouraging women of Japan to not put up with as much abuse within the home. Along with taking a more proactive role in teaching their sons not to treat women like disposable play things. She basically promoted a form of women's liberation that made the women of Japan to take on an even more traditional female role in society. She's a really interesting woman.

>>126814
The male uniform that was used until the blazers started to become popular was also based on military dress. Boys adopted an Army uniform while the girls got the seifuku/navy uniform.

Oh and while we're discussing it; There has been a major change in how Japanese schools treat uniforms in the last couple of years. The seifuku is getting phased out at a quicker pace than ever in favor of the new Catholic school girl style of uniform. So seifuku fans like me might be in for hard times going forward. More traditional schools and private institutions have retained it but over 4,000 public schools recently made the switch. But that's only semi-bad news.

The real bad news is those same 4,000+ schools recently started allowing female students to opt-in to wearing slacks instead of skirts. So the skirts we all love could be going away for good soon. If enough girls make the switch they'll probably phase them out all together since it doesn't make sense to produce two kinds of uniforms for half of the student body when no one is wearing them.

I can't get confirmation on this but the rule says that any student can opt-in to whichever uniform they want. So it might be technically possible for boys to opt-in to the seifuku with skirt. But I'm doubtful if any boys would actually do it since it would probably be a quick way to get bullied.

>>126818
It was modeled after the British naval uniform. And the British school uniform TODAY looks similar enough to the ones used in Japan. They don't just wear sailor fuku after all.

If you're a 6'6" American exchange student, wearing the sailor uniform might not lead to bullying but instead be cool, like Hulk Hogan wearing pink cool.
Sew a star onto your top for every girl that asks you out, and sew a stripe onto your skirt for every boy you put into his place.

>>126829
I'm sad I missed my chance to be a cool crossplayer in Japanese high school. The seifuku looks comfy and easy to wear. It also has that cool zipper down the side under the arm pit.

When I was in school I thought uniforms were awful and would pray every year they weren't pushed on us. They tried for many years during the last part of my school aged years. What a fool I was. Although, frankly most of the girls I went to school with wouldn't have been able to pull off a seifuku.

I find it funny that the reason for wanting them in my school was cutting down on bullying over the poor students not being able to afford the designed jeans and sneakers. Where in Japan the number one way you get bullied is someone screwing with your uniform. The uniforms they wear over there are really high quality to and the price of them reflects that. Where over here the students that were forced to wear uniforms were wearing some of the cheapest crap I've even seen. They would fall apart after a couple of washes.

>>126829
>American exchange student
That means you'd also be obese and rip the whole clothes apart.

>>126831
Assuming you look decent and aren't fat (and have features like blue eyes and the right skin color) I figured your life as an exchange student would be something like this; All the boys would hate you and refuse to speak with you. All the girls would gush over you and be too shy to speak with you. None of them would want to invite you home for fear of their parents disowning them.

I'm probably wrong. Maybe you'd get lucky and get a few of them willing to hang out hoping you'd help their grade in Engrish class.

It'd still be worth it to go to school with a bunch of girls that wear seifuku though.

>>126827
What do you mean by Catholic school uniform? Do you mean like this? >>126828

I would not worry about skirts disappearing too much. I went to a school that let girls wear pants if they wanted, most girls still wore skirts most of the time, we also had a school dress as well and some girls wore that but not many did.

>>126833
Yes exactly that. It's what they're called here. They were only originally seen in the Catholic schools for girls.
>girls and skirts
Girls will wear whatever is seen as cool. So if pants become a fad like they did in America around the 1950s we might see them start rejecting skirts in favor of trousers. One of the worst things that ever happened here was women rejecting dresses and skirts in favor of pants. I hate pants on women like you wouldn't believe. I even hated the yoga pants fad. I don't like skinny jeans either. They are not feminine.

I will never understand why girls have all those cute styles and options and opt out of them in favor of what are basically sweat pants.

>>126832
I'm not interested in 3DPD though. And Americans aren't as tall as what you're implying. They're 175cm (5'9) on average, only one inch taller than the Japanese on average. I'm not sure what's your point about a tall giant going to a certain country.

>>126836
I agree mostly, I don't like jeans or Yoga pants but I did like our school's girl pants. They were smart and form fitting, I don't know what the name for them would be.

I went to a public school though, so students were allowed to wear any kind of trousers so long as they were an allowed colour. That was a pain as it meant that many students would wear track pants, though actually that was mainly boys, sometimes girls would in winter however.

>>126837
I'm not sure why you're implying that I'm implying something that I didn't imply. Native redblooded Americans are much taller than 5'9 on average anyway.

>>126839
>Native redblooded Americans are much taller than 5'9 on average anyway.
Amerindians you mean? Technically you're correct. They were taller than the European settlers at the time. Not sure if that's still true today though.

>>126837
Sorry, you are barking up the wrong tree. It was I who first proposed the idea, and I apologize for using racist stereotypes.
I thought my post was sufficiently funny to be deemed innocent. I was wrong.

>>126840
I am 5'11 and most of my classmates towered over me by the time we got to high school. I'd say just under 6 foot tall is about the average if you exclude recent arrivals.

>>126838
Pants are never acceptable on a female in a public setting in my opinion. If they don't want the short skirt they should opt for a long dress. Short skirts aren't really acceptable either. Knee/thigh length at most with shorter skirts reserved for private comfy time with husband.

If I were a girl I'd never wear anything else. If I needed to cover my legs for whatever reason I'd wear tights under the skirt. Since that's what a proper lady would do.

>>126840
Were they actually taller than Europeans settlers? Where did you read this?

>>126835
this shab can't bite anymore...

>>126843
https://www.notesfromthefrontier.com/post/standing-tall-1800s-native-americans-were-tallest-in-the-world
It was only really limited to plains Indians though.

>>126843
not him but i googled it and came across this from 2001
https://www.jstor.org/stable/2677910
which is referenced by these other news outlets
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/american-plains-indians-h/
https://news.osu.edu/standing-tall-plains-indians-enjoyed-height-health-advantage/
and what >>126846 linked too

>>126846
During the 1700s and 1800s people in Europe were shorter on average than they were before. By European settlers I was thinking of something from the 1600s when European average height was taller. I'm not American so I have a different view of the term European settlers, to me that would be the first arrivals. I guess there were European settlers in the 1800s too, so what you said was not technically wrong.

That picture is just a picture, people can be depicted as large for various reasons it's also odd that it's from 1564 yet the text references the average French height in 1740.

>>126846
>>126843
By "red blooded Americans" I was referring to Europeans that had immigrated before the mid-1960s when the country was opened up to anyone that could breath. I can see how it was confusing though. I don't know how tall Indians were in the good old days. But having spent some time on reservations and in indian casinos along with the Wal-marts near said areas I can tell you that Indians today are much shorter than European descendants. Take from that what you will.

The average is lower than 6 foot tall in America due to the fact that a lot of short people have come here over the years. I once worked a job in FL where we employed a bunch of South Americans that immigrated from the heart of the Amazon jungle. Those guys were really short. As in barely over 4 foot tall short. You could pick some of them up and fit them in your pocket. They were strong though.

6 foot tall seems to be a good average if you exclude people like that and all the recent immigrants from Asia. The average height at my high school in my 10th grade year was right around 6 foot tall. People that played sports like football and basketball obviously were a bit over 6 foot tall on average. Even the girls averaged around 5'9.

A good example of why you shouldn't take things you read on the internet as gospel.

>>126849
>I don't know how tall Indians were in the good old days. But having spent some time on reservations and in indian casinos along with the Wal-marts near said areas I can tell you that Indians today are much shorter than European descendants
I said I was not sure if this was still true today anyway. Height has mostly to do with nutrition and sexual selection. People will often say "genetics" as well, but "genetics" is strongly linked with sexual selection. I think the reason the Japanese and other Asians are 'short' is because they are a patriarchal society that has a preference for small cute women and sexually selects for that, not because the diet is different. Otherwise I'd say they're pretty well fed. And no they're not short because they don't eat a lot of meat or dairy, Inuits easily disprove that.

>>126850
I'm just telling you what I've observed. For all I know Indians from further out west really were giants. Since I've never personally met one. I just know the indians from the tribes my family mixed with were pretty short-average. I suspect that was true for the entire landmass since there is really no reason to breed taller people than that optimum size.

My family came over in the 1600s but we're a bit shorter than average for whatever reason. Some bloodlines are just like that. Japanese are probably in the same boat. The few bloodlines that bred and made it skewed on the shorter side. Plus they live on an island. So there probably wasn't much room for them to grow.

But speaking of giants. A few old graves with massive skeletons and samurai swords have been found over the years. So maybe all the giant Japanese just died off or got murdered by their shorter counter parts. There have always been a few discovered in the Americas so that might be where the myth of the giant redman came from.

saying Indian on and imageboard is more missleading than IRL

>>126841
Never apologize to non-Americans. Lions don't concern themselves with the opinions of sheep.

>>126850
>And no they're not short because they don't eat a lot of meat or dairy, Inuits easily disprove that.
Inuits are one group of people who live in a very unusual manner, they are the exception to the rule. The average height in Japan went up once they started eating red meat and we see that there generally is a correlation between red meat and height. However Japanese height seems to have peeked at what it is now, though they don't eat as much red meat as other nations and there are probably other factors too. I don't think sexual selection has an impact at all, I think that it's still something to do with the Japanese diet. The Japanese don't eat as much as most western nations do and so the Japanese have a low BMI compared to other OECD nations, it could simply be that combined with them not easting as much red meat.

>>126854
Is there anything in red meat and dairy in particular that increases your height? I don't think there is. I've never heard of any studies that found any correlation at least. Maybe meat/dairy that is pumped full of hormones does, but this is illegal in Europe, so it's not the reason Europeans are tall. Also Mongolians and Central Asians eat a lot more red meat and dairy than East Asians and they're short as well. Inuits aren't the only example.

>>126850
Look up the average size of the Japanese from 1900 to now.
They've grown substantially.
Nutrition has played a major role at least in the past.

>>126855
I think Mongolians and Central Asians might have the same or similar issues that Inuits do, because they seem to eat a similar diet. Yes, they eat red meat but not much else, I would say that a combination of nutrients is required.

There are studies that have correlated meat and height. I'll post their conclusions as well.

>The current study extends our previous data from Europe and enables a better understanding of the enviromental determinants of physical growth in the developing world. The most fundamental finding is that the nutritional correlates of male height in North Africa, Asia and Oceania are very different and primarily depend on protein quantity, not protein quality. Furthermore, three basic nutritional styles can be distinguished, depending on the major source of protein:

>The first nutritional style (in tropical Asia) is based on rice and is also characterized by a very low consumption of protein and energy. It is accompanied by very small statures between 162 and 168 cm.

>The second one (in the Muslim countries of North Africa and the Near East) is based on wheat and the consumption of plant protein reaches the highest values in the world. The intake of total protein and total energy is relatively high as well and comparable with Europe, but the average height of young males is still rather short and does not exceed 174 cm.

>The third one is based on animal proteins (particularly those from dairy) and is typical of Northern/Central Europe. This region is characterized by the tallest statures in the world (>180 cm), being matched only by the inhabitants of the Western Balkans, in which we can presume extraordinary genetic predispositions.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1570677X16300065

>We have demonstrated that consumption of animal-source protein is associated with an increase in height-for-age z scores in rural Malawian children aged 12–36 months. Animal-source food (ASF) is superior to plant-source food due to a rich protein and micronutrient profile, and we conclude that interventions that promote higher intakes of ASF in populations like this have the potential to reduce the incidence of stunting. Therefore, more efforts need to be made to promote the incorporation of these foods into the complementary foods of children. We acknowledge that ASF interventions are more expensive to implement, making their feasibility difficult in resource-poor settings, and we therefore suggest that further studies be conducted exploring the impact of alternative ASFs such as field mice and edible insects on growth outcomes. These alternative sources are cheaper and readily available in rural areas. Interventions to encourage fish farming in rural local communities would also help in improving ASF intake in both children and adults.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6413013/

>>126858
That is a whole lot of "correlation does not imply causation". How do they explain Mongolians and Central Asians eating a lot of animal protein and being short? I'm pretty sure they consume way more animal protein than Europeans as well.
>Yes, they eat red meat but not much else
Dairy, eggs and dumplings as well. There is a lack of fruits and vegetables in their diet due to the extreme climate.

>>126853
just walk away, tail between legs

Okay, that's enough about height and nutrition. Let's get back on the topic of Japanese uniforms. Is something like pic related considered a sailor fuku? It looks similar but also a bit different.

I think it's not a big deal if the sailor fuku 'vanishes' anyway, because the other types of Japanese uniforms also look good.

>but also a bit different.
How so?

>>126861
This girl looks like she needs to eat more animal protein and possibly other stuff as well.

>>126863
The more you feed her, the less food will be left for you, Nadeshiko.

>>126861
Modernized seifuku circa 2004. Very cute.

>>126861
>I think it's not a big deal if the sailor fuku 'vanishes' anyway
Not true. Without the seifuku how will we be able to see school girl's belly? When they raise their arms it exposes the mid-drift. Which is not only very cute it also provides much needed fresh air during the hotter summer months.

>>126872
Akebi wears a shirt underneath to avoid this. Bellies are too lust provoking and we don't want sexual assaults to happen in schools.

>>126873
Akebi has dirty mind and should be more concerned about her father at home. Whom fakes being asleep so he can sneak peeks at his daughter's ass

>>126841
Never apologize for using racist stereotypes

I wonder what the Japanese think of wedding kilts. They look very similar to a lot of JK uniforms.

>>126876
Something like this would be hot as hell during spring/summer yet I still see quite a few 2D characters wearing it during those seasons. Think about it; it's a shirt, a sweater AND a blazer together. You shouldn't wear short sleeves during summer when the sun is too strong if you don't want your arms to get burned though. Farmer tans look silly.

>>126877
People that are used to humid climates don't really have an issue wearing long sleeves in summer. But yes it's a bit much. Another win for the Seifuku.

>>126873
Proving yet again that boys make the best school girls.

>>126879
A boy after my own heart.

Does anyone know which great person we have to thank for the introduction of sukumizu? They should be honored just as much as Utako-sama.

>>126881
sukumizu are trash, bro.

>>126877
>it's a shirt, a sweater AND a blazer together
And underwear, too.

>>126881
The japanese school system in the 80s?