I'm pretty sure something like this has happened before, so probably not. Switch is likely nearing the end of its life already so in the grand scheme of things it probably won't be that big of a deal. If the team had planned to also make a Switch 2 (or whatever it will called) emulator to throw on Patreon then yeah I guess that will be affected.

Hmmmm.... well, it's aimed at the most recent console from the most anti-fanworks manufacturer... and apparently they were selling illegalesque stuff...
Hard to tell, really. Shame about Citra.

It won't because Yuzu settled, if they went to court and actually lost then yes, there would be a pretty huge effect on emulation as a whole.

was it the Dreamcast that tried to fight emulation and lost or did they not fight at all and go broke

That's strange. My local version of yuzu and touhou spell bubble seem to be working.

>>120666
Call nintendo and ask them for help.

>>120662
You're thinking of Bleem!. Sony took them to court because their PS1 emulator for Dreamcast worked better than the actual PS1 console. Not really the best example though because they used a form of copy protection of their discs that took the community over a decade to break. Plus they never finished it so only three discs were ever released all of which required ugly hacks to make the three games they supported run correctly. Also wiped an entire VMU to allow you to save games.

I've never been worried about anything about emulators in court/copyright law. Happens all of the time and doesn't stop anyone. The main thing that's been holding back emulators and softmodding for years is the community itself. Where people sit on exploits for years or refuse to share source code in some stupid attempt to gain favor with Nintendo (usually) or one of the other big console makers.

Now that all consoles are glorified PCs with DRM+other limits there isn't any real work being done anyway outside of breaking the DRM. Which is pretty easy to do when a company like Nintendo doesn't even bother to do it properly. All a Switch emulator requires is some keys dumped off any legit console. All the Wii/PS3 softmodding required was running an easy exploit through a web browser or save file. Once I purchase hardware I consider it mine and do whatever I please with it. Hell with the Wii I was playing online using pirated games for years because there was nothing they could do about it. Same with the Dreamcast. Although I would have bought more games (they weren't that expensive back then) if they wouldn't have stopped selling them domestically where I live. I had to pirate just to be able to get access to the library.

If anything this is a good thing. Maybe these people begging for donations and attempting to profit from emulating while sitting on exploits for years will finally leave the community and stop eating their own.

>>120668
Note that I never used the built-in cheats to ruin everyone's day on games like Mario Kart. Although a lot of people did. A problem that could have been easily solved if Nintendo allowed/had proper servers and the ability to kick/ban people or just block them via a friend's list. But they refuse to implement social features like that because reasons.

The Wii console in particular I softmodded for one reason and one reason alone. The fact that I could load games from an external HDD hooked up to a usb port. Combined with a small homebrew application to browse the game library this meant I never had to get off my ass to switch between games again. No more screwing around with discs and no more worrying about them getting scratched. I spent about $400 on games+wiimotes+controllers then never bought anything for it again. What I spent on controllers alone was more than I spent on the console even though I bought it when it was like a month old. I have one of the very early models that allows you to install a small exploit to the built-in BIOS or whatever it's called. Highly desirable now because it's the only generation that can never be bricked by doing something stupid.

That's the core of the issue: If you're willing to softmod or emulate you always get a better experience than the company itself is providing to paying customers. I would have happily bought a Switch if they weren't so locked down now with the later models. I would have happily paid for Touhou spell bubble if it didn't cost $500+ all-in to pay for all the songs that were released for free through doujin groups anyway.

Why would I give hard earned money to some middle man like Nintendo or Sony when I can just send money to the creators directly? Why would I send money to some guy hoarding an exploit and shit talking everyone else in the community when I can wait for someone to leak it for free and send money directly to the creators of the games I'm going to run on the emulator anyway?

The emulator scene became very weird at some point between the early Wii era and when I came back to start playing video games again during the Switch era. Instead of releasing things for free and doing the work for fun everyone had shifted into nickle and diming people for everything. They want you to pay for access to the emulator. They want you to pay more for "early access" to betas. They want to police what other people can do with the code. They hoard the code. They report exploits found to Nintendo or sit on them for years. They spend more time ranting about things on twitter than talking shop on forums. They demand you join some discord channel and dox yourself to contribute. It's all very backwards compared to how it was years ago.

Back when I was actively contributing (around PS1-Dreamcast era) it wasn't like this. Lots of people were writing and sharing NES emulators and such just to improve their own programming skills. Information was openly shared. Code was openly shared. People hosted the code and binaries for free. People would help port each other's work to new archs and OSs. People would take time to teach others how to do basic reverse engineering and debugging. None of this is happening anymore.

This isn't exclusive to emulators of course. We've seen the same type of attitude taking over every community in the last 10 or so years. I don't understand it but I suppose I'm getting old and out of touch. But surely anyone that's been around for the last 10 years or so has noticed the decline in new original content and innovation.

>>120669
As an outsider, I have always wondered how the hacker ethic survived for so long with such a massive influx of newcomers to the scene.
But it sounds like it didn't, and perhaps what you are describing is a crisis of ethics, so to speak, further muddled by people who a really doing this as a job.

>>120686
As far as I can tell it died sometime in the mid-2010s. No one I've met in this up and coming generation even knows what the hacker ethics are much less wants to learn about them. They always have three primary goals in mind when they set out to learn how to "code".

1) Make money
2) Get famous
3) Get a job with one of the big technology corporations

As we can see two goals are about obtaining personal wealth. The other is about obtaining attention which allows them to gain wealth simply by existing.

In other words. We do not have people that want to create anymore. We have people that want to be youtubers, twitch talking heads, e-celebrities and/or become employees of some company that will pay them six-seven figure salary a year to do basically nothing. We see it in their very language and slang. Ask any young person about "side hustles" and "building a brand".

I try to stay away from the generational wars because it's D&C propaganda and you can't place the blame solely on this younger generation. The problem was they were coming up in a time when the older hackers were disconnecting from the internet all together. Even if they still used it they did not engage in the spaces young folks were engaging with. They were still on mailing lists and usenet while all the young folks were on phone applications and other walled gardens. So the younger generation never got a chance to interact with the older generation of hackers. The hacker ethics aren't taught in university anymore either. Even MIT abandoned them long ago.

It isn't like it was when I was coming up. Back in the good old days when I could send an e-mail to someone like Linus or Stallman and expect a timely reply. If you try that now you'll find yourself most likely blocked by some kind of filter that filters out "unapproved accounts". Or they won't read it at all because they're being flooded with mountains of nonsense and low effort trolling. Or you'll be forced to "build a brand" and obtain a certain number of followers and get yourself the blue checkmark before "known people" with "established brands" are willing to interact with you. Since if you aren't on the same list as them they fear engaging with you on the off chance that you'll publish the private conversation. Everyone operates as a mini-media outlet now. Where all they do is post propaganda and counter propaganda.

The sad truth is no one cares and even the old guys all sold out long ago. They violated their own ethics everyday by porting software to locked down hardware or willingly integrating their "open" systems with "closed" ones in an attempt to subvert them. It didn't work out. The GPL didn't subvert the world the rest of the world subverted all the GPL stuff. Plus the GPL hurt everyone in the long run. Since the way you control GPL software is to control the community that builds it. So instead of just taking the code and not giving credit these large corps bought off everyone involved that had committ access and the ability to determine the direction of development. No forks can compete because they are easy to ddos off the internet or sue into oblivion.

If the "free software community" and the "hackers" really put their money where their mouth is they would have never gotten behind things like GPL in the first place. They would have ignored copyright law/patent law/DMCA all together. Release code without a license at all. They would have hacked into systems to get the source code of things like Windows OSs and leaked it to the world for free. They would have kept going until these large corps were forced to comply. What we've seen is the opposite. We're quickly approaching the day when it's impossible to ever write+compile code for our PCs. x86 was an accident and they're never going to allow that level of openness again. They're quickly closing the loop hole with things like TPM and secure boot. Soon you won't be able to connect to the internet at all unless you've booted from a "secure" boot loader and your TPM signature is valid. If you attempt to spoof it you'll get banned at the ISP level. It'll be highly illegal to use "unapproved applications" that were "sideloaded" (such a stupid term). For everyone's protection of course. Every PC will require something like a SIM card inside (which is what TPM is) which will be tied to your Government issued ID. Only those that have gone through the process will be allowed to use the 1 or 2 social media websites that will comprise the next-gen "internet". Everything else on the web will be hidden behind a great firewall. If their owners don't fall in line they'll be first ddos'ed off the internet then later arrested for spreading disinformation.

The future is bleak.

It's all about money money money now. Money and your "brand". Doesn't matter if I go to social spaces for writers, artists, or hackers. You'll see the same talking points being posted. Mainly, that you're a fool to do anything for free and we're all here to further our careers or "build a brand". No one seems interested in creating art (hacking is an art form) for the simple joy of it or improving your own skills. I'm not sure what happened between the mid-2000s and the mid-2010s but I wish it didn't. It happened so fast. I went away for a few years around 2009 and disconnected from the internet for awhile. When I came back it didn't feel like the same place anymore.

>>120692
(cont.)

One thing unique to hacking is the fact that almost everyone was recruited into the intelligence community. You go to hacker-cons now and you can't play spot-the-fed anymore. Since everyone is a fed or under contract with the feds. It was really depressing to me personally to watch so many people I learned from and looked up to sell out. But I suppose it was always going to end this way. Why go to prison for 10+ years when you can work for them and make more money than you'd ever need?

I feel like I'm the only one that actually still follows the ethics I learned long ago; http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/H/hacker-ethic.html

But I suppose there are others. There just isn't any way to contact and talk with them through open discussion platforms anymore.

>>120692
>>120693
This is too long to ignore, too heavy for a "thanks" and too dark for a toast to the good old days.

Fortunately, I know exactly how to respond to such a situation. Please have this loli.

It's weird that they settled since the emulation aspect should be totally safe, but I guess they were pushing it with Patreon junk. An amount that small makes it pretty clear that Nintendo didn't love their chances either, so probably just more scare tactics. I guess it might be a PR victory with norms who buy into the "emulation is theft" narrative Nintendo want to build, but I doubt anyone in the scene will care at all. Yuzu was open source with their Patreon builds regularly dumped on github under a different name and recolored logo, so anybody, including the existing devs, can just hop right back in. Not to mention that ryujinx does the exact same thing, often better.

>>120658
I saw some speculation that the Switch 2 could have nearly-identical architecture that makes it super easy to make Switch emulators work with it, a la the Gamecube and Wii situation. That seems plausible, but I kind of feel like this is just them needing to lash out at somebody over the TotK humiliation.

>>120701
I buy into it because it makes nerds mad, like using ubuntu and commie subs

>>120701
I think there's going to be some real cultural backlash against the trending sue-them-quiet tactics in the next few years, which might unfairly broaden into suspicion against lawsuits in general.

>>120701
>I saw some speculation that the Switch 2 could have nearly-identical architecture
All Nintendo consoles going forward will be off-the-shelf cheap hardware. The reason why emulators pop up so quickly now is the fact that no one is making unique custom hardware anymore. We've reached feature parity on the hardware side long ago. There has been no innovation within that space for a long time.

This is also why so many people that wouldn't have been able to create an emulator or a basic website just a decade ago have started popping up and monetizing everything. They have no shame.

>>120701
>It's weird that they settled
Not really. Compared to what they raked in off tricking people to pay for free software a couple of million is a drop in the bucket. Now they can garner sympathy from people that don't know any better and rake in even more money going forward.

The people that actually do the bulk of this work do not charge for their work because it goes against their ethics and beliefs. But they're also the type of people that won't hold you hand and make everything easy for you. So there is a void that is easy to fill where you can trick people that don't know any better into sending you lots of money.

We see the same thing in most communities on the internet where stuff used to be openly shared for free but is now being hidden behind paywalls and social media accounts that want to datamine you in exchange for access to the software. Github is just one of many examples.

https://twitter.com/HikikomoriMedia/status/1764894963194597458
>Yuzu was running telemetry in the background collecting "anonymous" data
Why do devs do this? This is unbelievably stupid if you want to try and hide the fact that you're doing anything wrong or to secure your userbase.

Man, a Nintendo system with something resembling competitive specs would be so nice. It doesn't need to match whatever other consoles are still left, but just something that isn't so weak. It still bums me out how plain Monster Hunter Rise was on PC since it started off as a Switch game. Graphics are definitely not the most important thing, but sometimes it really seems like it would be better if developers had more room to work with.

Oh yeah, seeing this emulator talk I saw someone link this story about NESticle. Interestingly, it mentions that part of its success was that it was free. This was back in the 90s and some guy was charging for a NES emulator that came before it. I remember using NESticle, heh. Quite a... unique UI. https://www.vice.com/en/article/9a48z3/the-story-of-nesticle-the-ambitious-emulator-that-redefined-retro-gaming

>>120709
Nintendo have survived by excusing themselves from the tech race and it's proven even more correct today in the era of "literally just a PC" consoles than it was in the age of the Wii. It does bite them in the ass when they try to do really grandiose games like TotK, but people will buy those anyway because of the title and then they can pump out some solid AA games that don't need to make full use of next-gen specs. The downside is that their games look better on emulators than native hardware, but that's what lawsuits are for. And anyone who wants to make amazing graphics is already deving for PC anyway, so I doubt there are many people outside of Nintendo themselves who feel bound by the hardware limitations.

Isn't it more likely to just have future emu devs act more like Monero devs?

>>120692
>>120693
With that attitude you might as well be yourself on the spot.

The sort of doom-and-gloom extreme pessimism you espouse in your post is very easy to fall into; it happens to me all the time. But at the end of the day, it's simply not a constructive mindset to have. Nothing is accomplished by worrying about things that you have no control over, even when they are worrisome.

>>120850
>The sort of doom-and-gloom extreme pessimism you espouse in your post is very easy to fall into; it happens to me all the time. But at the end of the day, it's simply not a constructive mindset to have.
If everything is on fire sitting in the middle of the room and thinking "this is fine" gets you nowhere.
>Nothing is accomplished by worrying about things that you have no control over, even when they are worrisome.
That's the thing though. Up until a few years ago I did have some control. It has been taken away from me and everyone else because we've been kicked out and excluded from a community we started and built. All in the name of control.

You're advocating that we do nothing and don't fight back against this. Well if that's your stance you should be overjoyed. Since most people have decided to quit and there is less and less original content coming out of every community each year. This is fine for people that don't mine being datamined and getting recycled content. For the rest of us it's a huge problem.

>>120706
>Why do devs do this?
Because that data is the most valuable data on the planet. Since you can sell it off to the highest bidder. It's the same reason why every website embeds google: They pay you for the data.

>>121246
>If everything is on fire sitting in the middle of the room and thinking "this is fine" gets you nowhere.
That's not what I'm suggesting at all, although I could totally see how you got that from my post. Sorry for the lapse in communication.

I was trying to say is that you need to calm down and think about the situation to the degree that your actions can have tangible outcomes. Using myself as an example, I'm very pro-privacy and anti-censorship, so I use and advocate for things that improve both. For example, I use Tor for every website I can, and I tell others that they should too. I'm deeply afraid of attempts to reduce my privacy and access to information, but it does no good to think about a theoretical future where I have none beyond the extent to which it impacts my current course of action.

It's the difference between seeing fire and saying "the whole building is going to be on fire soon we're all gonna die!" and "I should grab the fire extinguisher".

Hmm...
>Collateral damage
>In addition to Yuzu, the emulation scene lost these in a single week:
>The Citra emulator for Nintendo 3DS is gone
>The Pizza Boy emulators for Nintendo Game Boy Advance and Game Boy Color are gone
>The Drastic emulator for Nintendo DS is free for now and will be removed
>The lead developer of Yuzu and Citra has stepped away from emulation
>The lead developer of Strato, a Switch emulator, has stepped away from emulation
>Dynarmic, used to speed up various emulators including Yuzu, has abruptly ended development
>One contributor on Ryujinx, a Switch emulator, has stepped away from the project
>AetherSX2, a PS2 emulator, is finally gone (mostly unrelated; development was suspended a year ago)

https://www.theverge.com/24098640/nintendo-emulator-yuzu-lawsuit-switch-aftermath