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/poll/ - Polling and Honesty

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File:1449115038362.png (255.08 KB,766x1067)

 No.570







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 No.571

Note: this thread has no approval from either of the admins.

It is im fact the 5th thread on this topic

 No.572

"Not enough posts" but I'm going with the second option.

 No.573

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
no

 No.574

>>570
should have made the expiration 14 days

 No.575

>>571
well, on second thoughts I'll respect the outcome of this

 No.576

>>571
None of the threads actually came to a consensus from what I can see. The only semblance of consensus was that nobody likes political moderation, typically caveating that they'd much rather all politics be banned instead of just some politics. Especially considering it's impossible to tell if some people responded with the same point several times, I figured it'd be at least useful to see what people actually think.

Personally, I can't control myself. I'd much rather occasionally be banned for a few days for stepping out of line than inadvertently instigate conflict at every avenue as I've been doing it seems...

>>572
25 posts is a fairly low bar...

 No.577

>>576
I usually have a VPN on at all times on this computer because reasons, so it's all spread out across various IP addresses.

 No.578

File:Screenshot at 18-27-19.png (22.74 KB,576x159)

>>576
this is dumb, I don't know why I have to punish you for having a legitimate position and wanting to defend it.

note: none of the bans have been checked apparently

 No.579

Outlined what I think could be a way of keeping limited, civil, political discussion on /spg/, but it'd require a good amount of effort on vern's end to follow. I don't want to see people like >>576 who make well thought out posts get punished just because they were caught up by a thread, or for people to have to worry too much about what counts as politics.

What I think could work is if Vern were to make the /spg/ bans on last a reasonable 12 hours and hand them out to anyone that posts stuff that's too buzzword-laden or shitflingy. That way it's short enough not to piss people off too much, and long enough for people to cool off their heads and maybe reflect on their posts. It'd require setting a more explicit standard than what currently exists on /spg/, but if followed I think it could be fairly functional.

 No.580

the posts that were chosen to be deleted in that /spg/ thread was hilariously bad moderation, and it was so much worse when followed by a self-righteous pseud defense of why those were bad ideas and not allowed

if that is how politics will be moderated it would be better for everyone if everything was deleted instead. It was literally using the ban as a downvote...

 No.581

>>579
well, to clarify what I'm trying to go for in that thread is an alternative to this shit https://ota-ch.com/jp/res/504438.html . Just filter the crap and just leaves up good posts. That way you can have a reasonable discussion of logic. Unnecessary ad hominens, logical faults and dogwhistles get you banned from the board and things like that.

Instead of becoming 0 consequence anonymity, the quality of posts is taken into account with large consequence. That's the idea I'm going for. That you think I'm political for doing this is just because the majority of political discussion on the internet is based around annoying shit.

I also believe it is completely naive to assume that this site will not eventually have a political identity assigned to it by others. Because it is an imageboard it is automatically assumed to be part of the American right wing. There is not much way to escape this reality by turning a blind eye to it.

 No.582

>>580
I have no interest in making the site appeal to these kinds of posters, this is not the 'Colossus of Prora'. The freedom given to these kinds of people fucks up every imageboard it touches. I am uncertain if removing politics from the site would even fix the curse of teens

 No.583

>>581
>I also believe it is completely naive to assume that this site will not eventually have a political identity assigned to it by others. Because it is an imageboard it is automatically assumed to be part of the American right wing. There is not much way to escape this reality by turning a blind eye to it.
This can be neutered by not giving political discussions any room to grow. Look at /nen/ for example and tell me if anyone would make that association.

 No.585

>>578
I understand your opinion, but I'd much rather be crushed under the boot of moderation like everyone else than cries of bias leading to unnecessary polarization and moderation resentment. For those who are personally invested, seeing X political opinion be removed is functionally no different than a particular anime always being removed (Strikes Witches on 4/a/, for instance). To that end, there are only two forms of neutrality: benevolent neutrality, or oppressive neutrality; always leaving everything up, or always taking everything down. Even if the standard is to moderate based on maturity of arguments, that will still lead to feelings of alienation, because politics is inherently personal. Would it perhaps be unfair for all political opinions to be censored? Yes, but at that point, the only people being alienated are those who cannot stop themselves from always bringing up politics.

>>579
I certainly respect the idea of moderating based on maturity, but that's a standard that's too hard to implement without constant vigilance. Flame wars such as the meta argument threads and politics threads tend to grow fairly quickly and are typically spontaneous in creation. Would it be nice if you could instantaneously erase lazy shitflinging, bad faith arguments, and uninformed posts? Yes, but the reality is that moderation is rarely real-time. More often than not, it comes in as the cleanup crew to delete things, which gives the false impression that moderation is an ex post facto rationalization of one side's arguments.

>>580
>it was so much worse when followed by a self-righteous pseud defense of why those were bad ideas and not allowed
You seem to be under the wrong impression. Those posts were made by myself, you're resident "commie," not verm, not cool, just me. Blame me, not them.

>>577
My condolences.>>583

 No.586

>>583
true enough, by designing the site around a cute aesthetic it escapes the notion that it has a political identity. But if it's taken to such an extreme then I would certainly be called a rulec*** janny. If I did it superficially then it would be Meguca. I'm using /spg/ for politics since the alternative is banning people from /qa/ or /jp/ for mentioning politics and this will result in more than a few people to get banned.

There's not a very good middle ground. In any case, deleting talk about American politics would paint this site as being part of the American left wing anyways. I'm sure a few people think that nen is not about white pride therefore is an enemy, but that's just speculation, it's just what I feel like people would say.

 No.587

Politics affects all life, so inevitably discussion will sometimes gravitate towards it. Zero discussion of it is unnatural.
However, it needs to be on a containment board and pruned so as to not overgrow all over the site, like weeds.
Political opinions from random people on the internet are of no shortage; kissu hardly is losing anything by not having needless wokeness and position arguments.

 No.588

>>586
To be clear, I'm not suggesting that moderation policy should be modeled after /nen/, just bringing it up as an example of a board that has been ostensibly successful in deterring the kind of political discussion that plagues so many similar boards. You're also right that it's possible to interpret the lack of politics talk as a political stance in and of itself, but I don't think there's much that can be done there.

 No.589

>>581
I don't really find you to be that political about it, but I do think that you were a bit too harsh with no strict guidelines defined. If you want to make /spg/ allowing of politics without the garbage, you need to make the rules less obscure and more well defined. If you don't then it'll only lead to speculation and resentment whenever you delete a post.

A good start would be to unban the person in >>578 and maybe make politic bans on /spg/ a bit more common (while keeping in line with what else I said) so that it doesn't feel to people as if they're being singled out too much.

 No.590

File:Screenshot at 19-21-01.png (77.04 KB,1693x417)

>>589
sure, I removed some of the bans of the past week. They should probably be temp bans anyways

 No.591

>>588
I think that it's only working so well here is that because we're still such a close circle that usually we are considerate of each other enough not to shitfling, and the rare times we do we know to keep it contained and in short bursts.

 No.592

>>579
>What I think could work is if Vern were to make the /spg/ bans on last a reasonable 12 hours and hand them out to anyone that posts stuff that's too buzzword-laden or shitflingy.
Using something like Smug's Hoihoi bot to block or temp-autoban posts with buzzwords would be a good way to do this.

 No.593

>>582
this post looks stupid when you simply line it up next to the completely milk toast non-controversial takes that were deleted

 No.594

>>593
The issue is not me, it is you and your lack of standards as to what constitutes reasonable discussion about mature adult themes.

 No.595

>>593
>milk toast
Hehe. It's "milquetoast," not "milk toast."

>non-controversial
That's very hard to argue.

 No.596

File:IMG_20200607_155710.jpg (145.5 KB,566x800)

>>595
>The name is just a Frenchified respelling of the old American English term milk toast,

checkmate

 No.597

I'm going to reset my IP again soon so yeah, I don't think I'll be voting after all. I will say though that my views are probably very similar to the other pissuman's, and I would trust his judgment on how to moderate politics 99% of the time.

 No.598

>>596
>Frenchified respelling of the old American English term
Huh. That's really odd. From what I know, British English changed some of it's spelling to be more like French (During Victorian times, I mean, not because of the Norman Conquest), whereas American English changed it's spelling to reflect pronunciation (and to be different). I don't think I've ever heard of an "Americanism" being francofied.

 No.599

File:IMG_20200607_150417.jpg (206.09 KB,1032x1363)

>>598
That's because the term was frenchified to create the name for a timid comic book character 'Mr.Milquetoast'; rather than any kind of linguistic evolution.

 No.600

>>571
>It is im fact the 5th thread on this topic
And we've become exceedingly efficient at it.

 No.601

File:17f5ee8da32edbeb261ebf5f1d….jpg (3.67 MB,2228x3541)

I think the outcome is fairly obvious even though I know that only 4 or 5 people have 25 posts to their IP. But the means by which to achieve this is questionable. I'd rather have a more clear definition, but in the least I'll remove blatantly direct political questions and answers about current events, though documentation I think should be allowed under an undeterimed ruleset.

 No.602

>>601
Note that Cool was going to delete it anyways, but he's on the site less than me

 No.603

Just remember when moderating politics to let the punishment fit the crime
The punishment fit the crime

 No.605

25 posts from the same ip lmao

 No.608

Poll's closed.

 No.609

no minority opinion formed

 No.610

if banning politics means i cant call you a faggot then ban me now

 No.613

>>610
It doesn't mean that, no.

 No.617

>>613
It is politics though, and that's why I know that this poll is busted and doesn't mean much.

Although, calling someone an incel vs calling someone a faggot, is there any difference?

 No.618

>>617
There's a difference between someone saying "niggerfaggot" and people debating who should be the next president of the United States

 No.619

>>618
indeed there are different levels of depth of political commentary, but calling someone a jew, faggot, incel, spic, chink and any other slur designed to call another person a subhuman is political under the branch of nationalism/tribalism.

 No.620

>>619
Too much faggotry over what's common sense about "no politics"

 No.621

>>620
A black/gay person would call this a system designed around demeaning them from being taken seriously and having to work harder to gain reputation for who they are.

 No.622

>>621
What a shame the Anonymous system isn't built around catering to the identities of individuals.

 No.623

>>622
well it is and does have the flaw of attracting political attention from the people who take identity language seriously. Bigots are going to come because a site is "woke on calling out the jews" or be repelled by it because it demeans blacks. It slippery slopes a site to becoming political

 No.624

>>623
People can have all the flowery language they want and not invite politics as long as people don't see the place as an opportunity to push their slacktavist agendas. Without more serious discussion to invite in those parasites they'll be unable to take root. As well I disagree on the idea that the anonymous system is catering to individual identity. Sure there may be a general identity which grows to surround a site or board, however for the individual it matters not what their background is or whatever their beliefs may be. What matters in the end is the text in posts said person makes

 No.625

What's more to add to it the atmosphere which imageboards promote is more of a gathering of "friends" or "comrades" or something along those lines. People who can be inconsiderate or rude towards others without feeling the need to hold back as much as it would be were they complete strangers. Not to say that the sole benefit is encouraging others to act as jackasses. It also helps to bring out those that may be shy into expressing opinions on things they otherwise may not be as comfortable talking about in front of complete strangers. For someone to get too caught up in their own self and be unable to adapt to the atmosphere by maybe shooting back at whoever offended them may be a sign that they aren't too fit to participate in the friendly chats which go on. Maybe in the case the site delved too deep into politics to start trying to force beliefs onto others it would drive others away, but mere choice of words for insults shouldn't be too much of a deciding factor.

 No.658

>>570
Not enough posts my ass. Ban politics outright

 No.659

>>658
Odd that it'd show that message, the issue is that the poll expired a week after it was made.




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