With extreme impatience. Denji is pretty clear-headed and autistically japanese, he'd do well if you paid him to learn.

>>5399
>How did you guys managed to learn programming anyway?
In classes with nothing else to do, or else I fail the classes. It had been fun to go autistic, but I barely could care to ever program for myself as a hobby aside from making some scripts, it's always for pressure to get a grade or get a job. So code course certificate farms aren't so bad. I've only pirated such if they're not free though, or tried to make my own if the stuff is too disorganized out there. Various time wasting trash thorough STEM uni and job made me unlearn coding but keep "the programming" and the intuition over what I lack. Learning programming is kind of a meme belief for people like me.
I'm now a genAI retard. I """re-learn""" by having genAI explain everything up from basics again and again between week+ hiatuses of coding in X language with Y libraries within Z environment as I try to be less retarded. """Re-learning""" is inevitable in any case, but at least genAI speeds up the different reiterations, so that the 1% sticks sooner.

it's been so long I can't even relate to beginners

I never finished learning C programming because it started getting too complicated to be fun (unlike writing scripts which is way easier), but I followed a free online programming course to practice all the basics and then I just made a bunch of things I wanted to use. When I didn't know how to make something do what I wanted it to do I had to research functions in a manual and find a way to combine things like a puzzle piece.

If you can mess with loops and arrays and have the ability to look up functions or add libraries, you are 90% there. Maybe not security wise, but not a big issue unless it's your job or you are publishing something that interacts with networks.

What is your goal anyways? If you want to be hireable you might need to do a lot of boring studying to build good routines, if you just want to write small scripts to make your computer life easier you barely need to learn anything beyond if not else do this loop and do this thing to these files. You could learn to do that in bash if you're cool, or do it in python like everyone else.

>>5403
>You could learn to do that in bash if you're cool, or do it in python like everyone else.
eh? I'm intrigued by your viewpoint because bash is "easier" as there's no real risk you'll end up having it rape you with some dependency hell oopsie tootsie

>How did you guys managed to learn programming
I wanted to download every doujin off of nhentai, so I learned to create a Python script for it, then I had too many doujins so I learned Python GUI programming to make a browser for it, then I learned how Python is unoptimized so I learned C, now I just want to create a ton of stuff and am perpetually learning.
I don't know if this was inherently in me or if I learned this as I learned to program but now I just like creating stuff and having knowledge about the lower levels.

>>5404
It's not a viewpoint. It is just how almost every beginner gets started.
￥I want to write a script to do this thing on my computer, I already know a bit of python I'll just use that
It makes sense too from a lazy perspective.

Above this post is Exhibit A, "I'll just use python". Then anons goals changed from "I just want this thing to work" to "I want this thing to be good" and so did the language.

>>5406
Yeah, Python is a good general purpose language for beginners, it's easy to learn because the syntax is basically English. You can do almost anything with it, command line scripts to complex GUIs. However, once you find what you want to actually do, you'll have to grow out of Python (unless what you want to do is something Python specific) because there's always a language better suited for that specific task.
You could make Linux scripts with Python, but shell scripts do it much more efficiently.

This is probably more a question for the Generics thread, but I'm putting it here in case the potential answers might be helpful to getting someone to learn a certain language over another:
I have nothing directly to do with programming, but I have always wondered about some of the differences. I feel naturally drawn to C because I've always been under the impression that, given how old they are, they should be among the "purest" options there are. Is this correct?
I've always understood it as the third in line after machine code and Assembly, though keep in mind I have no experience at all and am just going off of assumptions from what little I have read by chance.
I imagine universal application (old and new) would be a big preference of mine and I wouldn't mind sticking to a less feature-heavy language so long as it can still achieve virtually anything with a little bit of effort, which is something I mention because I heard C++ allows for some kind of grouping that sounded very QoL and is not possible within just C.

>>5407
I was skeptical about python at all until I found out prototyping with python is comfier in 90% of cases
sometimes you don't really want to recode stuff if it works like this anyway... yaaawn めんどくさい…　(⁠´⁠ ⁠.⁠ ⁠.̫⁠ ⁠.⁠ ⁠`⁠)

>>5409
>don't really want to recode stuff
Yeah, that's one point about efficiency/optimization maxing; after trying to re-create my GUI in C, I realized that unless you're making something that requires high amounts of optimizations like an OS or something, Python just werks.

I was not able to learn programming.

>>5399
Having a goal in mind and picking up coding to accomplish it is a very good way to learn
Your coding standard will be total shit and un-optimized but learning code in a vacumn and not immediately being able to apply it can often turn people off programming

>>5399
I've been programming since I was 10 and I don't even remember not knowing it. It meshes well with how my mind works.

>>5412
>Your coding standard
Standards are gay, make your spaghetti and eat it with pride. No one else is going to read your code anyway.

>>5414
I'm going to use a chatbot to read it and I will be very mad when the dumbass AI gets mindbroken from bad formatting and weird syntaxis! >:(

>>5415
gonna add random constants that instruct your AI to make some functions return opposite false/true

>>5399
I haven't successfully "learnt programming" but my learning has been going alright by following tutorials for stuff like godot. edx is also pretty good for free college courses, those help.

>>5408
It's simple compared to many other languages, and you can do a lot with it, but I wouldn't describe it as "pure" in the normal sense of the word. There are a lot of concepts that are natural to think about that don't have a direct analogue in C, likewise a lot of ways to screw yourself that some other languages handle better. An obvious example, goto statements. Rarely used but they are in the language. They are very close to how the CPU actually works, but it's better in almost every case to write things in terms of loops and conditions. Using goto leads to shit spaghetti code very fast, and it doesn't even make the language more capable.

This is a very old debate but read this if you feel like it
https://homepages.cwi.nl/~storm/teaching/reader/Dijkstra68.pdf

As far as being the third in line after assembly, many, many languages compile to assembly. C's advantage is that implementing the compiler is relatively easy, but that's usually not your concern. Interestingly, there are some niche languages that compile to C as an intermediate step.

I think programming is a misleading term. The language is only one piece of the puzzle. You also have to learn algorithms, paradigms, networking, math, cryptography, art, organization, planning, cybersecurity, computer history, and other stuff.
Now that I think about it all the CS fearmongering is ridiculous. Maybe they made it up to hedge their jobs in the worst case. It's way easier to become a rocket scientist.
On top of that there's no real way to dip your toes in. Like with reading and writing you always start with ABC's and work up from there. Here you throw yourself in and you sink or swim.

>>5428
>dip your toes in
Scripting.

What are some good resources for someone who wants to learn webdev? I want to make a piece of forum software and my knowledge of programming is just a smidge of basics for a general engineering class

>>5435
first you do codecademy to learn only the most basic html+css
then you try to do the official react tic-tac-toe tutorial and can't and give up

I almost forgot. Before you do the react tutorial, you have to read an entire JS book. I recommend "You Don't Know JS" because the title is just so funny.

don't touch React. It's a trap

>>5436
is there a place to get the pro version without coughing up the money?
>>5438
what's so bad about react?

also I'm not really interested in having a breadth of knowledge about programming or web development, just enough to learn how to create a forum website from scratch so I don't know if that would change things

>>5439
I don't know, sorry. I probably should have kept my mouth shut so that someone that was actually knowledgeable would have answered instead.

>>5439
React was once good but now it's bad.

In the past I would encourage people to learn to program, but nowadays I realize that everyone except me is too stupid to understand how to work with computers.
So just pay someone to do it or half ass the job with an AI

>>5441
you sound dumb

>>5442
if you were smart you wouldn't be asking how to start programming and already be doing it

>>5442
>>5443
Now kiss! Kissy kiss!

>>5399
If you can break down tasks to their most elementary steps and describe exactly how they can be done, you can already write programs. It's only a matter of expressing those steps in the syntax of a programming language.

Here is an idea. Let's say you want to write an age calculation program. What do you need to do to accomplish this task?

1) Get the user's date of birth
2) Store that in one place (variable) in the program.
3) Define the current date in another place (variable) in the program.
4) Subtract date of birth from current date and store the result in yet another variable in the program.
5) Display the result on the screen.

It doesn't matter whether you want to write this in assembly or python. The only thing that matters is that whether you can define these steps clearly and know just enough about the code syntax to translate from natural language to code. The most laborous part of this process will be translating these steps to a search prompt on Google and reading what people say you should do (and ignoring stackoverflow comments that doesn't actually answer your question and telling you to do something else). Sometimes some of these steps will require math knowledge (bleh) but in most cases somebody has already done the thinking for that and their code exists in some library.

>>5445
I feel like the logic is the easy part of programming unless it's something way more advanced like algorithms and the thing that I consistently struggle with is remembering the proper syntax. I don't even know any html, css, or js so I would just like some resources for even learning the basics of those languages

>>5439
Again, I'm the wrong person to ask, but this should get things started.

---

<html>
<body>
<form method="POST">
Name: <input type="text" name="fname">
<input type="submit">
</form>
<?php
$name = $_POST['fname'];
echo $name;
?>
</body>
</html>

---

Put the above into a text file and name it hello.php
If Windows, make sure your File Explorer settings are showing file extensions.

---

Open a terminal.
Install PHP somehow. Steps differ based on your OS.
Go to the folder containing hello.php.
Run php -S localhost:8000
Open a web browser and type the below into the URL bar.
http://localhost:8000/hello.php

---

See https://www.w3schools.com/php/php_superglobals_post.asp
Ask ChatGPT "How to change this so it appends the name instead of replacing it?" It might also say the code I provided is not secure. So you can fix that too.

>>5446
Codecademy is the easiest resource you can get, so do that. Some people say the best way to learn is by doing, so that's kinda like getting the above code to work and modifying it. So do both, I guess.



Now I'm going to ramble a bit.

When I was about 9, I would post on the Nickelodeon forums. It was there that I learned you could use HTML to make your words flash different colors and move around. And I was satisfied enough with that. About a decade later, I learned that HTML was not to be used for cool effects. HTML is for boring stuff only and if you wanted pretty font effects, you had to put it in a CSS file.

At that time, W3Schools was getting shit on for being a bad resource because it was often wrong. Now people say it is okay and that they fixed everything. The guys behind Firefox made an alternative resource, called MDN, which is very highly regarded. When you Google how to do something in HTML or CSS, these websites will pop up in the first results. Something like:

https://www.w3schools.com/html/html_colors.asp
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/Reference/Properties/color

If you also want in-depth tutorials that are as dry and difficult as a textbook, MDN is good. Everyone says MDN is good.

I did mention Codecademy because I was told to do the basic courses. It will get you through the basics. Once you're halfway through the basic courses for HTML and CSS, it's going to feel a bit repetitive. Like, it will explain how to make text red. Then it will explain how to make it yellow. Then it will explain how to make it blue. But I don't know anything about the Pro option.

HTML/CSS/JS are for the frontend, which is the stuff the visitor of your webpage will see. PHP is the traditional language for backend, which is all the stuff behind the scenes. You need a backend in order to make your forum website. Now, you have a lot of different options for backend but it's best to stick with PHP for now. vichan is a PHP imageboard.

https://github.com/vichan-devel/vichan

Cool people don't use a bunch of javascript frameworks, just remember that and you will be a good web developer.

>>5451
thanks for the info I'll check out MDN and if I bounce off it do the codecademy basic courses and then w3schools.
>>5450
thanks for helping out even if it's not your wheelhouse

>>5445
>If you can break down tasks to their most elementary steps and describe exactly how they can be done, you can already write programs. It's only a matter of expressing those steps in the syntax of a programming language.
This. This brought back memories of starting programming class in middle school and the teacher asking us on the first day to "write a program to make tea", then nitpicking every single detail missed. Thinking back on it now, it makes sense as a good analogy for programming.
>>5452
Yeah, honestly, I'd rather not get all those dependencies from npm or whatever it is that those JavaScript frameworks use. I go raw JavaScript and rebuild all the wheels.