you mean a trackball mouse?

>>1541
no the gimmick is the top of the mouse is angled at 57 degrees and its meant to be better for your forearm bones and muscles

I've thought about trying them as well, but I've thankfully never had wrist pain, just some weird finger pain that is remedied by squeezing putty. I heard someone say that you should grab a soda can and drag it around with your hand as an experiment of what these "ergonomic mice" are like.

If you want to not even move the mouse and be ergonomic get the elecom huge and a simple mouse for playing games.

I've had to use these helping people at work and they're unnatural as hell.

>>1540
It's a waste of money buy this instead: https://www.amazon.com/Kensington-Expert-Trackball-Mouse-K64325/dp/B00009KH63

>>1547
I should have gave you a proper reply. I have been using computers for 3+ decades now every day. Typing 120wpm+ all but the first 2 years of that usage and have been suffering from wrist pain for the last 20 years of that usage. Which I didn't start to take seriously until a few years ago. When my hands started becoming so painful and numb within 15 minutes of using a mouse that I had to give up on using one all together.

If wrist pain is a concern I _highly_ encourage you to consider the trackball I linked. It's the best new one on the market and it comes in both a wired and wireless version. The wireless version can easily be converted into a wired version with a simple solder of two wires. I also _highly_ suggest switching to a proper mechanical keyboard if you haven't already. Since a lot of my pain was caused by constantly bottoming out keys on standard keyboards over the years. You want something with good switches that engage about halfway through the key stroke. But back to trackballs.

Here are some reasons to consider the trackball and why it's better than any mouse;

1) Takes up far less desk space
2) Much better control. You get the ability to spin the ball quickly to cover long distances while also having unparalleled control with small movements. All with the "mouse acceleration" set to the lowest setting. It's the only pointing device you should be using if you have one very large monitor or multiple monitors.
3) No stress on wrist what-so-ever. Which these mouses like you're looking at can't beat. It doesn't matter how your wrist is orientated you'll be putting pressure on it.
4) Only takes one day of use to become used to a trackball. After two days you'll like it more than any mouse.
5) Lifetime warranty with Kenstington trackballs. Need replacement ball or bearings? They're free. Simply call and ask them to send you some. Get defective unit on arrival? They'll send a second no question asked. Don't want to wait? They're easy to work on. It's highly unlikely you'll need replacement parts anyway. These things are built rock solid and never break.
6) Easy to clean. Take ball out once a week. Run fingers over the bearings. Done.
7) Actually works better with a bit of gunk on the ball than when clean. If you clean it good with alcohol wipes or something it'll take about 10 minutes of use before it feels right again. They're designed to run dirty.
8) Say goodbye to needing mousepad and all that desk space wasted on it. Worth mentioning again because this makes it super ergonomic. Bring your chair's elbow rest level with your desk. Slide trackball to end of desk. Enjoy pain free pointing for days on end. I don't care if you stay up for 80+ hours in a row reading doujin with one hand while fapping with the other. You will not have wrist pain even with advanced carpal tunnel like mine.
9) It's far superior in all ways to a mouse for scrolling. You have both a massive scroll wheel and the ball itself. Map one of the top buttons to "middle click" and use the ball to screen left/right/up/down and even diagonal. All while tracking as slow or fast as you want. Perfect for reading manga and very large images on your computer. Perfect for badly designed webpages where you constantly need to scroll left and right. Perfect for editing images and video. Nothing compares (trust me I've tried them all).
10) CHEAP. They go on sale for 50% off multiple times a year. You can snag one new for under $40 shipped to your door if you wait.

I could go on. It's so much better than a mouse in every way.
>But I won't be able to play FPS games!
I was on a team for a very popular FPS game for 8+ years. We won world championships in it and everything. I assure you. You can play FPS with a trackball. But if you refuse to try guess what; You can have a mouse plugged in at the same time as your trackball. So use it for those niche tasks you think you can into trackball for. But I also assure you; If you put in the practice time (like a week) you'll be much better with the trackball after that week than you ever were with the mouse. Why? Like I mentioned before: nothing compares to the control you get with trackball. Need to spin around fast and 360 noscope something? Flick the ball and stop it. Need to line up a headshot on something at the edge of your field of view? The trackball gives you ability to make ultra tiny movements. All without switching "modes" or needing "gaming mode" or any of that other crap that come on these expensive mice.

>>1548
>>1547

Before I got a trackball I couldn't casually use a mouse for web browsing for more than an hour and for FPS for more than 10-15 minutes without horrible pain and my entire hand going numb. That's how bad things got by the end. After the switch I can use trackball all day with no pain. My wrists even healed after a month or so. So now I can use a mouse again. But I'll never go back. I got so good with trackball that I can never go back.

Please, please, please if you're having these problems make the switch before you end up like me. I still have weakness and some pain when I use power tools for extended periods of time or do certain other tasks. If I would have switched long ago I wouldn't have those problems now. My friend tried to get me to switch for years and I refused. I should have listened to him. He was the first person I knew locally using multi-monitors (In the mid-2000s on a G4 MAC) and the first person I ever saw using one in person after the late 80s. He gifted me an old serial port one to try but I never gave it the proper chance. I wish I would have...

I suggest buying new Expert Trackball Mouse I linked above. It's the best new one on the market. Some of the really old trackballs are slightly better (so I'm told) but they are becoming far less common to find in good shape now and require sometimes up to 3 adapters to get them working over USB (or you'll need PCI add-on cards to get serial ports for them and even then the drivers might not work for you OS).

As far as config: No fancy third party software required. If you're on Linux just configure them using X11 config files (Wayland ones work to I guess but I haven't tried them). Mine worked right out of the box on Windows + Linux though. All except the fourth button (top right button). Had to configure that in X.

Standard layout is: Bottom left is left click, bottom right is right click. Top left is middle click. Top right is back button. Scroll wheel is scroll wheel.

I promise it'll be the best $40-$60 you'll ever spend and you'll never use any other pointing device ever again. Give it a couple of days of use. Force yourself to use it. The benefits are obvious from the first use but it'll take a couple of days to break you muscle memory habits. Since you'll now be left clicking with your thumb and right/middle clicking with other fingers. That's the best feature of them. The buttons are so big you can click them using multiple fingers. You'll find your own favorites to use for each button pretty quickly.

Don't get discouraged if the scroll wheel feels stiff or the ball feels stiff out of the box. Wheel takes a bit to break-in. Ball takes a bit to build up enough skin oil to be properly lubricated.

If you have any questions. Feel free to reply and ask.

>>1548
Do you think any of your pain and numbness are from how you positioned your arm rather than your mouse? I remember hearing that some of the issues that people have is that the uhh... well I can't actually remember what it was, but you're basically putting pressure on some nerve in the arm by holding it against the surface instead of keeping it upright.
I've read about trackballs and I vaguely remember trying them back when there were physical computer stores here, but it seems like it would make my fingers hurt which is where my pain manifests now and then.
I think my issue is that I'd really like to have a mouse for a super arched claw grip, something with a large curve. I think my hand pain is related to me playing so many handheld games like Monster Hunter, so I ended up using arthritis gloves for the compression effect which does cancel out most of the pain if I ever play those again.

>>1547
I'll add it to my cart.
My situation right meow is that I have a main computer and a living room computer at home, and a desktop and laptop at work. So that's four pairs of mouse and keyboard. The keyboards on all but the work laptop are Logitech K280 or K280e, a membrane keyboard with keys that don't travel very far (think that's the correct terminology...). I'm accustomed to that keyboard and don't like using other ones. I also think mechanicals are overrated. They don't feel that different to type on, they just clack loudly and they're old so its nerd cred.
On the computers I use the most at home and work, the mouse is one of these: https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-M500-Corded-Mouse-Hyper-Fast/dp/B002B3YCQM/ and I really appreciate the hyper-fast scrolling which Logitech has a patent on so you don't find it in other brands >_< this ergonomic one will replace one of the second-rate mice in the other computers. It's a trial run of the concept, and if I like it I'll buy more of them.
The trackball you posted doesn't address the issue that the vertically oriented mouse is meant to address, which is the two forearm bones crossing over and coming close when your wrist is pronated. I guess you could place it on a slanted surface.

>>1554
>Do you think any of your pain and numbness are from how you positioned your arm rather than your mouse?
In the early days? Sure. In the last 10-15 years? No. I took posture seriously enough after I hit my mid-20s that this wasn't the main issue. Now I take it even more serious. But when the pain started to get really bad I'd already switched to mechanical keyboard for many years. I just kept my old habit of using a lightweight "gaming" mouse because I was playing competitively on an FPS at the time (and another before it). Both of which were very fast paced (think Q3A).

I had to give them up because I simply couldn't use the mouse anymore for longer than half a round. My other arm/wrist was okay. It was 100% the mouse even with proper form. Now. I had a lot of damage before then of course. But my point is it's cumulative. As soon as I started using track ball it stopped and even felt like it healed a bit. Since I wasn't stressing it everyday anymore even with basic tasks.

>I've read about trackballs and I vaguely remember trying them back when there were physical computer stores here, but it seems like it would make my fingers hurt which is where my pain manifests now and then.
Your fingers just rest on top of it, it isn't like you think. You were probably trying to use it like a mouse and gripping it like one. As you use the trackball you'll start to relax your fingers and use them for multiple tasks. I run my scroll wheel and left click with my thumb. I hit the back (top right) button with my ring or middle finger. I click "middle click" (top left) with my middle or index finger. I can get my true right click with my thumb or my pinky or my ring finger.

It all depends on how I just finished or an currently using the ball. I flick the ball around with all my fingers. I can't explain in detail how. It's that natural to me now.

You basically just keep your wrist level with your desk+elbow and place your wrist on the padded area just in front of the trackball itself. The trackball has a slight incline towards you (taller in the back). Your palm/fingers rest naturally on it. It's just like having your palm down on a nice comfy durable rubber pad.

Claw grip does sound like your main issue. I think it was mine to. I had 5 or 6 button mouse and I reloaded using the "back" button on the side of it. Did something else (zoom maybe?) using the "forward" button. The used the left/right for the usual things along with the scroll wheel for weapon selection. I needed my left fingers on keyboard free for many other functions and purposes. So I was murdering mice quickly since the switches all suck in them and I was constantly using every one of them.

I've found the switches in my trackball to be far more reliable and I use them as much is not more often. Since they are large(r) buttons and all.

>My situation right meow is that I have a main computer and a living room computer at home, and a desktop and laptop at work.
I've found their wireless version to be very good and have very good battery life. I own both the wired and wireless. The wireless comes with a dongle so you don't have to much around with connecting it to bluetooth (although it can do it). You can use RF->USB instead and that just werks everything.

I love taking my trackball with me when on-to-go. I use it with my thinkpad.

>I also think mechanicals are overrated.
They are not. I thought they were a waste of money to. They are worth their weight in gold. It's just that it became a fad with faux nerds to buy/build them lately. So they kind of screwed the market. But trust me. If you ever type of good switches (I prefer cherry blues) you'll never be able to go back to membrane style keyboard. I used those for decades and never felt like they were bad. BUT

You are doing damage by bottoming out on them constantly. You just aren't feeling it yet. But it WILL come back to bite you. Mechanical keyboards are a buy once cry once situation. They are not expensive to keep up and repair (it costs pennies to replace a switch and you don't replace them hardly at all. I'm talking years on end of reliable service. More than a membrane keyboard).

Do I have cheapo membrane keyboards? Sure. I keep a PS/2 in my desk just in case usb fails at boot for whatever reason. I have tons of them. Do I use them everyday anymore? Hell no.

You don't have to spend much on good keyboard. Even in this gaymer targeted market. If you can track down an old IBM Model M they're the best boards for typing/programming ever made. But a lot of non-model Ms are wonderful to of course. Just don't get suckered into paying $200+ for a gimmick one.

>>1555
>The trackball you posted doesn't address the issue that the vertically oriented mouse is meant to address
It does and it does it better in my opinion if your concern is damage to your wrists. They are for people with that concern that don't want to give up using a mouse.

>which is the two forearm bones crossing over and coming close when your wrist is pronated. I guess you could place it on a slanted surface.
Trackballs are nearly _always_ designed this way out of the box excluding those horrible mouse+trackball combos. Look at the one I linked. See that little pad it comes with? That's for your wrist to rest on. Now take a close look at the base just ahead of it (the plastic under the ball itself). It's at a slant. So it rests flat on your table but is a bit higher in the front than in the back. I've personally found it to be perfect slant for me. If it isn't for you then you can adjust it no problem.

My wrist is totally relaxed when using a trackball. Which is more than I can say for the keyboard I'm typing this on right now. Which is a very good keyboard.

Aside from trackball+good keyboard: Chair, posture in chair and your desk set-up is a serious thing! Do not take them lightly. No kind of input device can correct bad posture or too little desk space.

I suggest having a big/deep enough desk to have room to put your elbows on the desk top and reach the keyboard. You want your keyboard pushed way back close to your primary monitor. This alone will take a lot of stress off your wrists. You want a chair with good arm rests. You want them level with the desk. You want your free to be able to reach the ground. You don't want to slouch over the desk itself.

I also high suggest old school metal shop desks. Since they're huge. Have plenty of desk space with overhangs to mount monitors and they're generally cheap and will last forever. The right desk makes all the difference. You need the room.

>>1562
>So it rests flat on your table but is a bit higher in the front than in the back.
That's orthogonal to what I'm talking about.

my trackball gamer girl big sister bends my wrists back every day

>>1548 >>1549
Am seriously considering getting one of those now, especially since I more often have pain in my wrist and the tendons in the back of my hand recently. So thanks for all the information you gave. I hope that model goes on a sale soon in my country too since 110€ is ab bit much for an experiment for me.

>>1561
Model M keyboards are truly a pleasure to type with, only the sound of the keystrokes are rather drastic (Lain here seems to like it though).

If anyone else needs a quick and cheap fix for wrist pain with mouse usage, I've been using an xbone controller with a steam desktop setup and its good enough. Lets me rest my wrists and still work. Im sure a trackball would be better, but I already had it