>>1327
I think it's more every episode is presenting a different "theory" to the events of the night. Where the witches are more of a thing that take place in the meta.

>>1325
Doesn't help that 7 and 8 are so different from everything else. I've seen a lot of people say they dropped it on 8, but 7 is the one that seems to me the most... complicated. Though I remember 5 and 6 being really good with all the characters they introduced. I mean, imagine Umineko without Erika.
>>1328
>exchanging casual insults indicate to me a close bond
Same, great stuff. Especially after being estranged for six years, bouncing back like that is huge.
>>1330
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought each version of the incident came from/was formulated as a message in a bottle, and what the meta world was observing was an enactment of one of those stories, which is why the goats tear apart the island/story with their theories.

Chapter 4 (and the tea party and ???? thing) complete.
Hmmm.... it really was a truly fantastic, beautiful chapter. The way everything tied together truly made for a wonderful conclusion. The comic relief loser flag thing was quite entertaining. There's a talent that is truly on display during these moments talking about power levels. Yeah, this one was certainly made to be a bit silly, but the excitement was still there. The George and Jessica battles reminded me a lot of Akasaka in Higurashi.

Very happy to see Marie get a resolution with Satorou. So "uu" wasn't a mental scar from Satorou, but a magical incantation to be with her happy, loving mother and not the black witch "version"? Wow, what a beautiful reveal. Ange's story is very emotional as well, but Marie really stole the show with her strength and beautiful soul. Marie is a serious contender to "most emotional story in a media I've experienced". So much suffering, yet her innocence created magic and she kept her smile and even spread smiles to others. Hats off to Ryukishi07. (and why did you make Gou/Sotsu and a gacha...)
I'm happy to see more development with Beatrice. So, she has a relation to Battler somehow, huh. I'm guessing she is why he's been away from the island for six years. He has a strong desire to reject witch Beatrice, but does that mean he would be confirming her regular human death? Bern and Lambda said Beatrice can never win...

I also want to say that from the beginning and now at the beginning of chapter 5, I hate the existence of Bernkastel. I'm sure the story will paint her in a different light as it goes on, but the nature of her existence really bugs me.
For 100 years Rika fought and struggled and went through tremendous suffering and finally found her happiness. How and why can Bernkastel exist? Rika earned the right to be happy in all realities...

>>1334
I can see why you'd like her so much. She really is a strong girl. Though... that may be truer for her witch form than her real one. I don't remember it well.
>>1335
It's generally assumed that the two split during Saikoroshi when she killed her mother, but that's not exactly canon. Gou would've been a big deal if it had finally addressed it.

Completed Chapter 5 and I'm a few hours into 6.

5 was definitely a step down from 4, but I think it's about equal to 1 and 2.
I understand that it's supposed to have an atmosphere of the game being defiled, but it just seemed to abandon too much of what I liked. I don't like the over-use of the red and blue text, although the gold text at the end of Chapter 5's "????" bonus chapter thingie was really awesome.
This is the first time I used 'fast forward' to skip text, during the great trial when it felt like going through the evidence for such a long period of time. "A happened, so here is red text. B happened, so here is red text. C? But blue text? No, C is red text. Kinda lame. It used to be significant and I paid attention to it, like the 18 humans on the island which I kept in the back of my mind and turned out to be significant later on. Again, though, maybe that's an intentional debasement of the game, but it does have the effect of making the world less interesting to me as a reader. It feels mechanical.
Some parts of it were really nice, though, like Kinzo being dead and battle to maintain the illusion. Everything with Beatrice was great and nearly everything with Erika was awful.
I said this early on in the thread, but I like Natsuhi. Chapter 5 made me like her even more. What a strong and honorable woman, yet vulnerable inside and you want to give her a big hug and cheer her up. Battler using his new game master powers to use red text to restore her honor was one of the best things I've ever seen and almost completely redeemed the chapter. ;_;
I felt smart because a character said "Rudolf clearly knows something when you look at Chapter 1", because I pointed that out in one of my posts here. Feels good, man.

I think there's too many characters being introduced when I want to know more about the existing ones

- I don't like Erica, as she ruins the island. She's fun in a meta sense, but she destroys the atmosphere with her proclamations from God (Bernkastel). I don't know how later chapters are, but chapter 5 would be better without her. She's basically there to tell you "This is not real, do not enjoy these character interactions, this follows the rules of a trashy novel."
The constant 4th wall breaking really does not belong in a series that is so emotional and empathetic. Maybe she's just following the chapter's theme of destroying what I liked about "the game"/Umineko, but I have to say that overall she is a terrible addition, even if she makes funny faces. She would be a great character in almost anything else, but not from something that just gave me Chapter 4 and the beauty of believing in magic and sympathizing with characters who struggle against their suffering and reach their own happiness. I hope she gets destroyed soon and never brought up again.

- Dlanor is fun and I like her. She has an interesting and unique perspective that is a proper addition to the cast. The pride and sensitivity she has over her "dad" that created those Knox rules is cute, especially for an "unfeeling" golem or whatever she is. Basically, she's a good version of Erika that I can accept as an otherworldly judge with her own reasoning. Her underlings don't really add anything, though.

- I like Beatrice because you could tell she wasn't pure evil, she had/has her own motivations and emotions and I'm trying to understand her. The "hehe life doesn't matter, let's kill everyone" personality of Bernkastel and Lambadelta is very boring to me. I hope Rika is still there in Bernkastel somewhere and she becomes a real character. Currently when either of these two are on the screen I lose interest.

- Since I've started chapter 6, it seems another "I'm bored" witch has been introduced. I remember her from Gou/Sotsu where she wasn't particularly interesting for the same reason. I'm glad to see Ange back, but these great witches are not interesting or empathetic. Bring back Ronove and the Seven Spikes!

>>1347
>>1348
Well, yeah... that is the point. Erika's out for blood, Dlanor is a terminator, and witches are bitches. The Court of Heaven and its bureaucracy has sent down some of their best to see it done. It is an attack on Beato's works and what they stand for. Umineko is waaaaayyy more meta than Higurashi and this is something that makes sense both in- and out-of-universe. What you're feeling is intended. I don't think the bounceback would work without it.
Saying that Erika sucks, though? I hope you'll reconsider that one.
>I hope Rika is still there in Bernkastel somewhere and she becomes a real character
I... would not hold my breath.
Though, the way things are going, I'm pretty sure you're gonna love Chapter 8.

>>1349
Yeah, I meant to make a third post a few hours later after thinking on it more. Chapter 5 isn't bad, but it did a good job of making me upset. It's hard to rank it when I hate it by design.
Yeah, Chapter 6 seems to be the opposite and it made me smile and feel all warm inside so far, but I'm not too far into it. I'm expecting something atrocious to happen.
It's kind of nice that despite so much time on imageboards and seeing so many Bernkastel and Lambadelta reaction images, almost nothing has been spoiled for me as they tell nothing about the story. Though, I guess you didn't need to read it to save and repost them.

Erika? Well, maybe as a "love to hate" villain she's alright. It's nice to see her lose and get angry. But, anyone who picks on Marie I can't like. She made her cry and unless there's a redemption like Ange it's unforgivable. Marie is such a nice girl. She fills me with those extremely intense moe "urge to protect' instincts.

>>1348
I'm more of a fan of Bern's unrelenting nature, but I can see how it'd be seen as a negative to others.

>>1351
Yeah, images like these are what I associate Umineko with. I guess I can actually post the images now that I've read it

sigh...
I'll comment on Beatrice and more of Chapter 6 later, but Marie... sigh

>>1353
Anonymous, I'm sorry to tell you this, but... She's called Maria. With an A.

>>1354
Er, yeah. That's what I meant to type.
I guess I've warmed up to Erika since she seems to be a pawn (literally) with emotions and not just an evil clown clone of Bern.

Chapter 6 complete.
I liked it.
Although I don't like how life and death no longer seems to matter since not even Battler cares about killing his family "pieces". I don't know how I'm supposed to think of things after George kills his mom and other similar murders happen that don't go along with the previous stories at all. I still love the character interactions in isolation, but it's hard to take it seriously when they don't themselves. At any time everything could be flipped around and maybe Maria is a robot now and she has an army of turtle soldiers and she kills everyone for no reason. I guess they're all essentially actors and nothing matters is what the story is currently telling me. This is in sharp contrast with Higurashi in which Rika had a goal she was pursuing and the deaths were failures she sought to prevent until she found her miracle.

It was interesting to see information on how Bernkastel was mentally destroyed. The "hell" that Lambda, Bern and Battler went through was described in a very fantastic and convincing manner. The moments of Battler stuck in that room was really great, quality-wise. It did some like a true hell. The love demons were quite entertaining.
I wonder if "if you have love, it can be seen" was something you could actually follow and solve in Japanese.
I knew it was right to have faith in Beatrice!

>>1359
I think I agree with Anonymous' comment that you'll probably enjoy EP8 with your current grievances. The "Without love, it cannot be seen" comment I think is still up in the air, and maybe referencing one of the endings.

I'm a few hours into Chapter 7 and
I hate it. Richter Belmont being the hero is fine, and a change of scenery is interesting. But what the hell? I don't care about WW2. I don't want real life stuff in this. Since Bern is in charge is this supposed to be another "reader is supposed to hate everything he sees" chapter?
I hope this isn't some masturbatory fantasy about imperial Japan, as I honestly can't tell if it's satire or not when it mentions the historical kamikaze torpedoes that could destroy "large warships" in a single strike.
What is this garbage...

>>1361
Uh. Ryukishi is pretty clearly anti-nationalistic.

>>1359
The original Japanese line is 「愛がなければ視えない」 which literally means "if there is no love, it cannot be seen". It's not a riddle in the sense that the epitaph is, it's the core of the story, what Beato tells Battler when he fails to grasp her setups. Let's wait until you finish 8 and see what you think of it.
>>1361
Not "everything", but...
>Scheduled for today is the funeral of the Golden Witch and her game.
>The days of the game are already over, and nothing remains but fond memories.
>Here, the cold, hard truth will be revealed, and death will come to the game...
>There is...a bit of difficulty to this one.

Well, now that it's about Witch Beatrice it's a lot better. I feel some of the stuff said here is a bit too direct, like a character is slapping me in the face with the direct history to tell me exactly what happened. I don't really like that, but still the story is fantastic again. I hope a lot of these facts turn out to be wrong or just Bern's own interpretations instead of solid facts.
Any time Maria shows up I know the story is going to be good. Everything about her story is so wonderful, as even the sad parts are something to be cherished. There are many good plots contained in Umineko so far and I do really care for Beatrice, but Maria's story continues to impress me in so many ways. What a strong girl...

Hmm... I think I know where they're going with this.
It seems Beatrice was/is trying to understand the concept of love (which she couldn't "see") from Shannon's interactions with Battler. But, Battler didn't return six years ago. Is she upset at him for the sake of Shannon or for her own inability to learn about love? It's said the murder stuff wouldn't have happened if it was a year earlier or later? Strange.
Shannon refers to herself as a human in these flashbacks, so something has happened since then. Witches use 'furniture', so I'm thinking that I'm going to get the answer as to why Shannon refers to herself as furniture soon.

I'm "hope"-ing for a miracle and Beatrice returns and finds the love she was trying to understand, in the "present"...

Finished Chapter 7 and both tea party things.
Belmont is a pretty great character, although I wonder if his original portraits also had such tiny eyes. I guess the future for him is bright and he forgot shades.

I wonder if all these higher plane people share the same higher dimension or if "heaven" is somewhere else separate from Bern and such. It seems like "real" witches have dominance over them, though, so maybe a dimension between fragments and where ever witches dwell. I don't expect that to be elaborated upon, but it seems interesting.

I still hate the early part where it mentions WW2 and Japan and Italy and whatever else as I think it unnecessarily brought real life parallels to a fantasy work, but after that the chapter really picked up and became good. Well, Maria being some sort of Christian is a bit strange too, but it makes a bit more sense since Western religion/mysticism stuff was already involved from the beginning with the mention of Hebrew symbols.

The story of "Claire" was a nice return to to magic from the banal world of "mystery". The chapter format was quite great, although I'm not too big a fan of the theater thing. Lion being the miracle fragment is quite reminiscent of Higurashi and Bern spending all that time to find it gives me conflicting theories as to her motive. Sure, it'd be entertaining for her and her 'master', but I wonder. I shouldn't get my hopes up, but I will. I want to believe.

I was expecting some explanation of why and how Shannon became "furniture", but there is no such answer. However, now that I think about it I remember earlier it was mentioned that Shannon and Kanon together are one human and that's why they can't both find love, so I guess when Beatrice somehow created Kanon she split Shannon's soul and she's no longer a full human. I don't think Beatrice's magic comes with a sacrifice like the higher witches, so it seems like a simple cause-and-effect thing. Well, at least if you believe in magical explanations. I do...

It's funny, the past few days I've been thinking that it's strange that Rudolf hasn't been a villain in any of these worlds, so of course now he is. Also, I really hate Eva even if she wasn't the ultimate villain this time. I haven't said that enough. Maybe she'll finally find redemption in Chapter 8. So many of the characters have a past full of suffering, but people like Maria gain empathy whereas people like Eva gain cruelty. This is one of the things that shows great strength of character, in fiction or reality. People who receive cruelty either from people or from circumstance and yet still care for others are the most beautiful of all, like Maria.

Seeing the epitaph in even more detail... yeah there was no way I would get even one step of it. Funnily "Lion" was there in "quadrillion" and I wonder if Ryukishi07 did that on purpose even though it wasn't part of the puzzle.

Hoping for the miracle of miracles as I start Chapter 8. I hope Beatrice can somehow be revived as herself and not as Lion or someone without memories. I hope Bern reveals that she has at least a touch of humanity left in her.
I hope Maria gets everything she wants and more. Have I said how much I love Maria as a character? Because she's wonderful.

>>1369
Hmmm... Well, there's the Halloween Party, but if you already hate Eva this much then I doubt that'll change anything. I'm curious though, why do you dislike her so strongly?
I mean, alright, she's ruthless, she talks smack, and overall she's a cunt, but I don't see her as being truly abusive like Rosa is. I wouldn't say her treatment of George is anything insane, either. She's shown to have an honest, healthy, and loving relationship with Hideyoshi, a genuinely great guy who respects her and with whom she can be openly vulnerable. It's quite possibly the best relationship anyone in the family has, I would say better than Kyrie and Rudolf's.

>>1370
>I don't see her as being truly abusive like Rosa is
Rosa is terrible, true, but Eva being terrible is highlighted in almost every chapter, including 7 which I just completed. She does care about George, somewhat, maybe, but it's hard to say that's genuine love and not her simply grooming a protege to inherit the ring to give her power. I think the goodness in George is a result of Hideyoshi's influence. Hideyoshi is a great person, like everyone else that married one of these terrible siblings. Well, Kyrie is more "cool" than loving.
>It's quite possibly the best relationship anyone in the family has, I would say better than Kyrie and Rudolf's.
Maybe, but its because the siblings are such terrible, selfish people. Natsuhi is my favorite of the adult couples, but her marriage is just so sad and one-sided from the very beginning.
Eva is extremely rude, insulting and cruel to those around her. She doesn't simply disagree with someone, she insults and demeans and tries to break them in front of others. It is a particular type of hierarchical cruelty that is truly abhorrent to me.

A little bit into chapter 8 and Wow this is so happy and wonderful. Happy tears ;_;
I feel an intense sense of foreboding as things will break down, but at the same time my jaw is stuck with a huge smile. Things will not be this happy I'm sure, but I do have hope that some dreams will be realized. Please find happiness...

>>1371
That's understandable and I do not disagree.
I personally, uh, respect her proactiveness. At least she has some higher goals and stuff.
>>1372
It's going down like it never has before.

Well, okay, Eva has redeemed herself a bit. And the thing it was getting at about perhaps all of this being a non-truth spread by rumors means the "real" her could be a great person...

I'm not sure if I have the patience to do this one gameplay part. I guess I'll give it a try for a bit, but I can't really do it from bed so it's not as comfortable.
I guess I'll see if there are any characters that telling obvious lies. I'm still a bit confused by the rule that "murderers must not die" rule. It mentioned suicide, but does it also mean the culprit is alive at the end? Hmm. The rules also has a sentence of "the culprit alone may lie with purple statements". Does that mean there's only one total culprit? Or does a culprit kill and is then later killed, so that there is always only one living culprit? Hmmmm........
Well, I guess I'll start with Maria's statements since I trust her.


This is pretty cool

>>1384
Hmm actually, Maria seems pretty suspicious here. If these are lies then it opens up a lot of possibility, such as the second twilight happening at all. If she's lying, then it opens up George as a culprit.
Well, I guess Maria will have to go to the "maybe" pile since nothing here is conclusive to me right now.
I think I need to make a screenshot of red text for comparisons

>>1385
George and Maria being culprits together would invalidate their "the other person isn't a killer" purple text. They're also both alive at the end.
I'm sure this is far too simple of an answer, so I'll take another route somewhere else and compare red text that perfectly aligns with purple text to eliminate liars... maybe? I'm not good at these puzzles...

>>1386
Eh, screw it. It's clear that I need to re-read each Twilight multiple times and take notes and I don't have the patience for that. I'm looking at some of the hints and I was on the right track in regards to red text and narration, but doing the busy work of reading each narration to take notes... ehh...
I don't like mystery novels and this is why Chapter 5 was such a slog for me. Meh, I'm just going to pretend it's back to being a kinetic novel and have them give me all the hints.

Going back a little bit, so it's confirmed that Lambdadelta is Satako, huh. It seemed like 90% likely to me but until then there really wasn't an obvious connection, but this is a direct reference to a Higurashi event from Keiichi fooling Satoko when they played zombie tag (thanks to the stream for refreshing my memory). This is something that came out far before Gou/Sotsu so... huh. I wonder what theories people had before that.

>>1387
Yeah if you hate mysteries a lot then it might be frustrating to go through this section. Also the theories that people had beforehand were Nomura/Takano because of the 34 connection
3(lambda) 4(delta)
3(三) 4(四)

>>1388
Yeah, Takano is who I thought it was, even before Kai made it seem even more suspicious. I didn't think of any connection to the name, but just her adversarial relationship with Rika and of course the hair and eye colors.

>>1389
By that I mean I thought she was Takano for the first few chapters. Their relationship seemed a lot more aggressive and bitter in the first 6 or so chapters so it would make sense to me. Maybe I should have remembered that Gou/Sotsu meant that Satoko is willing to kill all her friends and family to avoid homework.
sigh... so stupid

>>1390
I don't blame her, homework SUCKS.

>>1387
I liked Bern's game because it gave me a chance to finally not be a tard and finally figure something out on my own, managed to get it right without any hints. It was fun.

As for 34, in Ciconia there's yet another blondie with that name, hhhhowever I am ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that it's actually a prequel given one specific scene from Gousotsu. I'll be proven right when Phase 4 releases fifteen years from now.

Umineko... complete. sigh. I was forcefully ejected back into reality.
Someone earlier said I would love chapter 8, and I'm pleased to announce that they were right. Wow.
I can't really organize my thoughts so I'll just throw a bunch of lines around:
It was really a beautiful way to wrap things up. I was still hoping for a miracle far greater than Battler returning after decades, and I cried when it came true. I wanted magic and miracles to be real! It kind of makes me wonder what would have happened if I chose the 'trick' door, but I refuse to acknowledge that so it will stay closed. Magic is real and that's final.
Is it just two endings, the "trick" one and the "magic" one? Does the medal count in the quizzes matter at all apart from possibly influencing the prize doll (which would just be visual)?

I was very happy that one of the witches became emotional and throw away their witchy instincts, but I was not expecting it to be Lambda. This makes the Gou/Sotsu thing even more infuriating.
Eva did redeem herself in this chapter, or rather I was finally able to see the real Eva and I'm very happy to be proven wrong.
As the story is complete, I can say that I hate Bern and Erica with full confidence. They're not bad characters, but obviously I'm going to hate villains that stand in the way of the happiness of the good guys. Rika really is dead inside, huh. A sad fate for someone that used to be so strong...
When I first heard Schrodinger's cat (or I guess "cat box" here) I kind of wanted to groan because it's cliche, but it used it for such a fantastic way for the story. All the talk about the various "truth" and such is such a brilliant way of using it. Man, what an impressive story of reality and truth and facts and magic and so on. Truly impressive.

Although she barely got any attention in the later chapters, I still have to say Maria is my favorite character because of Chapter 4 and occasional interactions with Ange later on. I can't say enough how much I love Maria's story.

I might be able to say more later, as I'm still kind of recovering from it being over. This is something I kept around as unread not just out of procrastination, but because I wanted something amazing to experience when I needed it. Now I need something else in reserve...
Ah, and now it's time to go download a bunch of albums and stuff, although I really don't know where to go for any doujin stuff these days so it would just be official stuff from AB or whatnot...

>Magic is real and that's final.
Glad you picked the objectively best ending and enjoyed yourself because of it. Yeah, it's a really fantastic finale and the joy it brings to finally have everyone happy is second to none. A bit of spoilers maybe, but the trick ending is just as pessimistic as the option presents itself so you did well to avoid it.
Did you watch the secret tea party afterwards as well? It's great too.

>>1394
>Did you watch the secret tea party afterwards as well? It's great too.
I did, yeah. That's where the happy endings (and screenshot) was from. It seems like after Chapter 2 or so the tea parties stopped being a meta discussion and just story continuation/epilogue.
I'm happy that Aurora wasn't the one-dimensional evil monster that Gou/Sotsu depicted her as, since she seemed to have significant involvement in helping the miracle happen.

>>1393
Yeah, the ending is god-tier. Don't understand why some people dislike 8, thematically it makes total sense.
There's just those two, and yes, the medals and gift are purely visual. Still a very interesting way to have Ange interact with the family.

Part of the strength you've talked about is faith, it pops up a lot. A lot of people take away that love and magic in Umi consist of denial, but I understand it to actually be faith in others, opposed to mystery's cold truth which places no trust on anyone. Battler's conflict is about trying to maintain faith in his family while opposing Beato's torture. Maria has faith in Rosa, and endures through magic. There's also stuff about understanding people's hearts and motivations and all that.
Golden truths are the product of collective faith as well, which is why in 6 when Erika and Maria are fighting over the teacup, the former can say "Your so-called candy magic is nothing more than a sleight of hand!! Just a sleight of hand that the fake witch calling herself Beatrice or whatever claimed was magic!!", but later Beato states that "You used magic to create a golden flower petal inside an overturned cup. It was a splendid bit of magic." I'd like to believe these are compatible with each other, but I'll admit I'm not sure.

Going back to the endings, in the magic one Ange lets go of her stake of the group and her need to pursue the gruesome truth because it won't bring anyone back, it's pointless, while the story in Eva's diary is not made public. Even lets go of her name. In the trick ending... Erika and Ange are comrades, that's all I'm gonna say. Witch of Resurrection versus Witch of Truth. Imo, both fit and make for a great conclusion, I do think the trick ending is important even if it feels awful and that it's commendable how it lets you choose. It goes against the message, but you can do it anyways.
In any case: without love, it cannot be seen.


Don't forget to read Tsubasa, Hane, and Saku. They may be side stories, but some of them are quite relevant, like Memoirs of Lambdadelta (very important wish-granting) or Witches' Tanabata (about Maria and Rosa, Ange and Eva). You may be able to get a few more hours out of it, and you can watch funny fan videos should you choose to.

>>1396
>Don't understand why some people dislike 8, thematically it makes total sense.
Yeah it was somewhere here on kissu (not this thread) where someone said something bad about chapter 8 and I don't really understand it. Well, I'm sure people had different expectations or just different tastes so I guess it's understandable.

>A lot of people take away that love and magic in Umi consist of denial, but I understand it to actually be faith in others, opposed to mystery's cold truth which places no trust on anyone.
That's a good way of putting it and how I see it as well. Maria has unshakable faith that her mother loves her and that she isn't alone. Rosa created a toy friend for her and it is a real, literal friend- a sentient lion that she can talk to and play games with because that's what a friend is. Since her mother loves her, when someone that looks like her mom is angry and violent it is clearly not her mom.

>...when Erika and Maria are fighting over the teacup, the former can say "Your so-called candy magic is nothing more than a sleight of hand!! Just a sleight of hand that the fake witch calling herself Beatrice or whatever claimed was magic!!", but later Beato states that "You used magic to create a golden flower petal inside an overturned cup. It was a splendid bit of magic." I'd like to believe these are compatible with each other, but I'll admit I'm not sure.

I think they're compatible, sort of. The way I interpreted things is that the idea of a universal "truth" is really not something that exists, least of all with reality-bending higher witches around. Chapter 8 is when Ange was able to overturn the red text directly, proving its flawed premise of it being absolute truth. It's similar, but different from Battler using gold text to override red text in a previous chapter. I think Ange doing it without text color is a sign that she has essentially changed the rules of the world whereas Battler was still following them back in chapter, uhh.. 5?
The way I see it, red text is more like an artificial truth given by a game master over a game, or a witch over a lower dimension. It's like reformatting the world to create a new one, removing what was previously there, which I suppose goes along with the "cat box" theme. The game master could say "the sky is pink" in red text and it becomes true by act of God essentially. The power of the gold/magic allows a human to reject it. I find it very interesting that Featherine laid a gold rose onto the closed book, like an acknowledgement that the Ushiromiyas have written the final set of rules for their world.

>Don't forget to read Tsubasa, Hane, and Saku.

What are these exactly? Manga?

>>1396
>>1397
In Japan, chapter 8 is widely seen as a betrayal on Ryukishi's part. After spending a lot of time building up Umineko as a battle of wits with the player in an active role and the central goal of figuring out Beatrice's identity and motivation, and how the murders took place, the game throws this aspect out the window and goes full metafiction, and gives a cheap solution (lol split personalities) that isn't even explicitly stated in the main game, leaving room for doubt. Many people didn't like the whole goat thing in the later chapters as well, which is just Ryukishi berating the players for trying to solve the game.

Now imagine this is what you get after spending 3 years attending Comiket to buy the games on release and sharing theories on message boards trying to solve the mysteries.

I don't dislike chapter 8 myself, but it's understandable. Also, considering Higurashi used to be touted as one of the "big 3 doujin games" along with Touhou and Tsukihime, and Ryukishi has faded into irrelevance while Touhou is reclining but still going strong and Nasu swims in money... it's hard to say he didn't shoot himself in the foot with Umineko.

>>1398
Hmm... Well, I suppose I can see how that would play out. The mystery part seems like an afterthought to me, but I have no interest in it. I already said so earlier, but Higurashi's little epilogue things (like the Tea Parties in Umineko) that asked the reader to come up with theories proved to be something that surely no one predicted, so I would have assumed people would expect something similar. The tragedy of Higurashi was solved when everyone believed their friends could accomplish a miracle, not because of fantastic reasoning and logical deductions. I wonder if people were upset about that, too.
Umineko comes around where magic and witches are mentioned from the beginning and there are storylines like Maria's completely unrelated to the murders and I kind of have to wonder what people were expecting. I think that ship sailed long before chapter 8.

>>1397
Hmmm, I don't know to what degree the catbox analogy actually applies. There's at least two side stories where we're shown game masters explicitly crafting their board with full knowledge of everything that'll be in it. Complicated stuff.
>What are these exactly?
More novels, a collection of shorter stories like Higurashi Rei/Hou/console arcs. Super recommended:
https://nyaa.si/view/1091912

>>1398
I think Umineko's solution is much better than Higurashi's. From what I've seen, people were theorizing about Shkannon, Shannontrice, and their relation to the broken promise as early as 2009. A split personality is way, waaaay less out there than an outsider secret society pulling the strings. I mean, how many people predicted Tokyo? Having that fresh in my memory, I wasn't mad at all.
I also came into Umi hoping for a battle of wits (what got me interested in WTC was logic battles roleplay), in chapter 2 I already wasn't a fan of all the magic fights, I thought they were obscuring the real mystery. Which was true, and once I realized that the change in tone was no surprise. I didn't take the goats thing personally even though that's what I'd been doing all along, because in spite of that it's still solvable without magic, there's a concrete solution that you can choose to pursue by design.

As for the ratings and stuff, how was Phase 1 received in Japan? In the west it's the third most posted about, while the ones inbetween it and Umi you never hear of, like Higanbana, Hoturabi, or Rose Gun Days. I myself don't know jack about them either. But P1 was a setup chapter and it's been four years since it released 'cause apparently P2 was going to feature a pandemic and that got royally screwed over. Then came Gousotsu, which was awful. A bad streak.
Gacha may be a important factor too, it was just a couple years after Umi ended that it started to spread, right? I'd bet FGO is what draws most people to Fate nowadays, don't think mobage players are going to sit down and read a long-ass novel like older fans used to. The other two didn't adapt.

>>1399
The mystery is definitely not an afterthought, getting the reader to fire up their neurons was always intended:
>I have made it to the point where in a classical mystery someone would say „All the mysteries have been solved!“, the answer has been made clear enough and not few people have actually arrived at the truth. For me there has always been a path leading towards the truth and there have been enough people on it at certain points to be sufficient. The people arriving there have arrived because they thought about it. And wouldn’t it be inexcusable towards those who actually put effort into arriving at that truth, to just give the answer to those who didn’t arrive because they did not think about it. Because I hoped for the fun in Umineko to lie in „thinking and troubling yourself, but reaching the answer through that“, I did not create something like a solution section in a riddle book, where you can look for the answers just by opening them.
It's from this 2011 interview, where arriving at the truth comes up a lot:
https://seizonsha.wordpress.com/2011/06/13/最終考察%E3%80%80うみねこのなく頃に-answer-to-the-golden-witch-special-discussion
Haven't read the whole thing, it's long as hell.

>>1400
>More novels, a collection of shorter stories like Higurashi Rei/Hou/console arcs. Super recommended:
https://nyaa.si/view/1091912

Nice!
Yep, I'll definitely be reading those then. Huh, so some people are working on "Umineko Gold" with with help from Ryukishi and Witch Hunt, huh. No interest in English dub (weird), but that sounds interesting. (from the nyaa link)

>The mystery is definitely not an afterthough
Well, alright, the mystery stuff is only an afterthought to me.

>Shkannon
That's one of the things I was hoping would be answered in Chapter 8, but never was. Well, I guess it's just magic then. I assumed the "reveal" of Kanon possibly being magically split from Shannon threw a wench in the red text of "There are 18 living humans on the island" from a few chapters earlier, especially after the Kinzo may or may not have been dead. I remember some witch saying that was a risky thing to say.

>>1456
They're good stuff. Though Gold is apparently ultra dead, has been for some time now.
>18
Looking at the wiki, the statement for most episodes is something like: There are no more than 18 humans on this Rokkenjima. Even counting Erika, it checks out.

I decided to put off those chapters and I think I might read them soon. Although, I wonder how much of everything I've forgotten. I hope you don't need to remember too many specifics, but I guess other people went years between reading this so I should be fine.
Just like with other stories I've enjoyed, however, music does a great job of making me remember things!

>>1485
based. enjoy fren!

>>1540
Thanks! I think I'll delay it a little bit, but I'll probably make a thread for it on uhh... /jp/ I guess? I guess we'll see how things pan out. I'm quite good at procrastinating

>>1540
Based on what?