Donation page updated for more professionalism.

I'm working on a premium statistics feature.

1 year left on the primary-haiji servers lease.
2 years left on the other-luna.

In this now unlocked thread I'll discuss Kissu's financial plans and my justifications for them.

Intro/Background
Kissu has two servers. One purchased for 4taba and Kissu utilities(luna). The other hosts kissu's software(haiji). Both share the file space equally on luna.kissu(small files) and haiji.kissu(large files and thumbnails).

Kissu faces two issues with our current setup. Periods where all server resources are used up on the haiji server leading to 5second+ post times(a multi-factor problem consisting of the operations performed by posting and background operations done to automatically update the site's information). Given that we don't get a post a minute yet it's not a terrible problem, but it arguably prevents people from wanting to use the site for chatroom like functions.
On both servers we constantly teeter on the edge of using up 40GB of data. This 40GB of data can be eternally worked with. It's not like we will run out of space any time soon. I can always backup then reset the server to remove pointless programs I added and lost track of. Most of it is likely being wasted from my experiences learning how to work with VPS and Linux servers.

For anyone wondering: 4taba = 6.4G, luna.kissu & services = 4.8G , haiji.kissu = 13G :: total = 24G . Libraries and other unknowns = 16GB . So there's a lot of "things" that are taking up disk space that I have not investigated

The Problem
What I'm saying is In the current state of Kissu nothing needs to change except perhaps who provides the server, VPS vs Cloud etc.
However there is more to the decision than the current state. I have accumulated from the community 911.96USD(April 2020 -> January 2022). If I do a rough average, that's 1800USD per 4 years or 450USD per year.
To renew both servers and domains for 4 years with our current provider would be something like 419.20USD leaving 1300USD. This level of support warrants an upgrade. However, I believe I deserve some money for my effort put into the technical aspects of managing the site.

I want to propose a cut I'll give to myself from the sum of donation funds and a budget for server purchases. I'm still working out the details, but lets say that I decide that haiji is going to be a 2GB/40SSD/2Core (3rd party evaluates it as a 1.6x increase in performance for 2.2x the cost) and luna will stay the same, then that's 619USD allocated to the site, and 1181USD to me (34% site budget, 66% my cut).

My Decision
There are likely some more affordable mid range VPS providers than what we have or maybe I want to switch to Digital Ocean and go for cloud hosting. Our main server expires December 1st. There's a lot of time to spend on this question.

I would like the community to give me options to explore. Concerns about how much is going to the site. Offer other suggestions on what a good use of the money would be and etc.
There are many good(and lets not ignore wasteful) ways to put funding to use and I can't say I know all of them.

Paying yourself is fair.
Are there any other imageboards that use cloud hosting? Have you checked how well it works out for them?

Sounds fine by me. All I would ever be concerned about would be the transparency of where funds are going, but frankly I've never cared so long as the site isn't in jeopardy of not meeting funding requirements to stay online. Regardless, for being combined admin and developer, the time put into working on the site is in my opinion perfect reason enough for you to get a cut anyways.

>Periods where all server resources are used up on the haiji server leading to 5second+ post times
Does this account for the type of post? As in, the difference between posting with an image vs just text. From a user's perspective at least, I've never noticed particularly long post times outside of uploading larger files at times, but that's to be expected.

It would be greatly appreciated if you can give cool some cut.
The community is as important as the server and I'm sure that lots of users donated for exactly that.
This site will be much less appealing if not for him to maintain the culture and occasionally control your autism.

>>9031
No, I don't want that. He pays for servers and does the technical stuff. I just post as I would normally

>>9031
The two others have their own form of payment for doing what they do and it might be more fair to say that they are the biggest donors and shareholders.
While I'm executive I'm an employee more to Kissu than a member of the site.

This sort of hierarchy is common in community clubs such as sailing where the manager(myself) handles technical operations and pays other people to perform skills while the community forms itself in the space created by management. Often club fees are required which are allocated based on various people, but it's assumed that the volunteers are in fact the people who have spent the most on the club (decade long memberships)

So while I have offered cool some money, he has declined and berun provides me money and is one of the main reasons I could weasle my way into an excuse not to jump into a 9-5

let it be know to all the teenbros and trolls that he does (not) do it for free.

If my reinstalls don't free enough space then I'll start planning for a server upgrade.

>>9026
Digital ocean isn't uncommon, lots of websites use Amazon Web Services to get the distributed processing power of Google for the small business. It's not about what other people use though. Cloud hosting offers you to adjust the harddrive or CPU space with a purchase(modularity) whereas on a VPS I need to get a new server with more resource allocations. Thing about Cloud is I've never used it so I'm not sure about what advanced issues I would encounter. The software that I've written has been for a VPS and tested on an OS that behaves like it. Server hosting websites sing praise about cloud and it's hard to find objective pro-vs con reviews that are not written by "influencers". They obviously will not tell you it's failings without you discovering that on your own. Probably the main issue is consistency of user experience. When one server is performing poorly other users will get shifted onto other servers automatically without any control over this. Cloudflare does this to some extent already and at times you begin to wish it didn't exist and you had more control.

If Kissu were to ever reach the levels of popularity of the major imageboards then we would have to either go from a small cloud provider into AWS which would be very trendy and make the site modern. If we stick with VPS then eventually up to a dedicated provider like 4chan does, discrete and stable.

>>9028
>Does this account for the type of post?
Yes, it's quite variable. Making a post on 4chan is generally always going to be faster than kissu. I'd say we're probably one of the slowest to post imageboards.

>>9069
>I'd say we're probably one of the slowest to post imageboards
The bulk of the background problem >>8993 sounds like it could be solved with a beefier server, always, but have you considered changing the imageboard software?

I see, from the main page, kissu is using vichan https://github.com/ECHibiki/Kissu-Vi
And you've(?) invested considerable time into modding it for your purposes, which is great.
I'm a big proponent of 'if it works don't fix it' always, but with your concerns listed (and despite the time already invested into this vichan fork) have you thought of exploring different imageboard implementations altogether?
With this bottlenecking
>multi-factor problem consisting of the operations performed by posting and background operations done to automatically update the site's information
I would be curious if some software rewriting could fix it

>>9070
Yeah, I'm going to pick a VPS with double the resources, but probably a 2 year plan.

>rewrite
yes, but I'd need someone to provide me for a year and I don't think it's likely going to happen. Perhaps I could begin some drafts on how to do it so that if I ever have the right situation it will be a faster process. IDK if anyone really gives a damn about what sort of language a server is running on or what it looks like, they just want to post and me nerding out about it is probably a selfish venture.

Vichan is slow, but the amount of things that are happening is what makes it slow. Switched to a split server idea (vichan handling the posts and Hazuki[Golang API and etc. server] ) to give myself a starting point for writing my own. But not too sure if I would actually use the code in an imageboard engine project.

>>9071
It seems the bulk of your demographic wouldn't care
but I think it's still something that's interesting and worth

It's a worthy venture. The easier the code, the easier sysops, I think.
Things like JS or Rust - not too much of a fan of software with more than 10 dependencies.

>yes, but I'd need someone to provide me for a year and I don't think it's likely going to happen
What are your current ventures for money?
It is quite unlikely anyone would pay for a rewrite...
Frankly I'm curious how you get people to donate in the first place.

>>9078
yes, rust core running on top of golang would be my ideal situation. Rust-Golang bindings are something worthwhile. I'd probably experiment the idea on 4taba first and then refine it for kissu.

You have to figure out the answers to the other questions yourself. I don't casually discuss that.

Rather, Rust as the core of an engine performing tasks such as thumbnail generation, connection pooling, data storage, template generation and having anything else do tasks such as API writing, routing and scripting (Python, Golang, Lua or perhaps multiple instance of Node) would make it one of the most efficient imageboard software if done right.

>>9079
>>9080
I only asked because the boldness in such a statement confused me – guess you just get donations through up-selling features.
Just the thought of having someone pay you to rewrite an imageboard is a foreign idea to me

Are you aware of this?
https://github.com/bakape/meguca

>>9081
Kissu borrowed its captcha code, so I assume yes.

>>9082
Oh, I've yet to get a captcha. My mistake

>>9069
>I'd say we're probably one of the slowest to post imageboards.

we take it easy here

>>9028
>transparency of where funds are going
We're looking at anywhere from 20-40% reinvestment into the site. In USD our per month upgrade in server spending will be from 3.95 * 2 to 10.00 consolidating our two servers into one big one. Kissu doesn't require funds for services such as backups or CDN since I provide my own hardware and software or use free services.

This means that funding beyond this level(currently 6.00 - 17.00) will have to be put back into it in some meaningful way. This reinvestment plan should begin this month in some form as either stockpiling for later or using outright. Possibly as upgrades to our graphics removing our font-awesome effects for designs or gifting games to community members. Anything to make Kissu a more enjoyable place.

This remainder 60-80% (currently 50.00 - 67.00) going to me pays my internet bill and food. If I don't eat I will die. If I have no internet I can't post.

Banners.kissu.moe is back up and now has a feature for funders

There was a feature that I was working on, rich text, which would let you see the styles and colors as you type your message. A live preview basically. I discontinued it because it was completely absurd in difficulty to get to work on all platforms and be bug free.

I'm contemplating getting this feature working again and making it available for donating users.
A private userscript being given out which will override the existing QR box and append options to the options menu.

In turn for the user who doesn't want to pay, this will begin to create an API for the Kissu-UI that allows for other people to attach userscripts and override various features.

the kissu merchandise

Good possibility that the board specific banners feature stops being paywalled. Possible in the future that features discussed here will be free if a certain arrangement goes through.

>>6583
Thank you

>>9895
I'd buy a koruri daki. Or even a plaid if they were still selling it

the power of merchandising...

not a big deal, but I'm changing from Patreon to Ko-fi because Patreon's fees and transfer options don't facilitate me spending these funds on kissu's expenses through my US virtual bank account.

>>10009
>Ko-fi
Can us normal users do that hyperlink thing?

>>10010

yeah, it's not in the toolbar though (along with dropdowns).
[u https://test.com]internal url[/u]

>>10011
How do you get dropdowns?

OP updated to include current changes.

Current costs:
12.00USD/Mo main server
9.00USD/Mo (324 USD/3yr) backup server
2.70USD/Mo domain names (32.32 USD/Yr kissu and taba)
Total: 23.70 USD/Mo

Currently getting(excluding my sponsor):
9USD/Mo (then the fees) Patreon
0USD/Mo (with better fees) Ko-Fi
Total loss from changing platforms: About 30$/mo
changing platforms is pretty harsh

>>10009
i stopped procrastinating and switched to ko-fi

Started doing monthly posts to summarize the site changes over the months
July's: https://ko-fi.com/post/Update-July-M4M5DND5I
August: https://ko-fi.com/post/Update-August-K3K4E2ZRD

Realized I shouldn't be calling them updates of the new month since they're recaps and not previews..

August: https://ko-fi.com/post/Update-September-Y8Y7E5NQ6

From how it seems the site will get enough donations to pay off everything.
Around Christmas/New Years my account paying for servers and domains will start floating cash.

Since I'm getting enough funding from another guy, was thinking that everything extra here would go to Cool through gift cards or other forms of purchased currency. But we're still working out if he'd appreciate it and if it's a good method.
If not(he genuinely says he doesn't want money), I'm not sure what else to put it on since I intended these donations to go strictly towards the website while I get personal expense funding through another source.

The OP probably due for another rewrite depending on the usage of extra funds

September Writeup:
https://ko-fi.com/post/Update-September-I2I5FOF1C

Thanks for any and all funders of the site's servers
With current funding (and new large subscription if that was intentional) we'd probably be hitting funding levels by the end of April. But with the coming and going of funding it might be longer.

This will sustain the site until June 1st 2025.
When these targets are hit I'll take down the page for reasons:
- I have nothing planned to spend the money on.
Money in the associated bank account is USD dedicated to site funding wheras my salary comes from elsewhere
- I'm not satisfied with Ko-Fi's hidden Stripe fees and moving back to Patreon after having just changed away from it seems like bad taste.
- With the new server being developed I want to expand the benefits of being a VIP user.

Want to get something special while helping me out financially?

If anyone is looking for a musical instrument, you can buy the one I used for most of my time at university from here. Online order with shipping.
https://www.twiggmusique.com/en/trombone-usage-conn-88h-c.html
Cosignment agreement with the store is that I get $2083 on the purchase.

>>11226
The most important comedic instrument

>>11227
>>11226
You make that effect with a literal toilet plunger

>>11228
hahahaha nice

>>11226
an indirect kissu.....

>>11230
A poutine flavoured indirect kissu... And it comes with a free trombone!

>>11230
kimoi

vermin's rusty trombone

Forgot to make a January post
https://ko-fi.com/post/Update-January-F1F8I63DD

>>11358
>So far it's caused the spammer to ignore Kissu.
good work dude

February
https://ko-fi.com/post/Update-February-K3K8J99RN

>>11533
>These ideas will be more fleshed out later.
given past experience i doubt it's gonna become any more coherent

>>11537
Anything longer than two lines tends to be

Probably won't even bother
I did enough reading and writting in school. What matters more is implementing ideas in a convincing way through prototypes and real world examples, not trying to convince people in writing using theoretical arguments. Though I'm pretty convinced of my own theory even if you lack the creativity to interpret it(and all the better so that lesser minds can't steal the ideas)

no no interpretation is relatively easy
it's that it's a hodpodge of weak ideas thoughtlessly strewn about with pretensions of originality
for example
>In my opinion the strength of an online community is not determined by the strength of software in the above.
default stance across most of the internet, borderline redundant
>IM’s spontaneity can’t inspire hundreds of posts in an hour between two engaged individuals.
wrong, especially in its timeframe
>Indeed, MBs can produce their own Activities and feedback loops.
verbose but shallow, that's called a conversation
>However, a set of users focusing on the MB or talking heads in an IM server at typically creates meta entertainment which tends to create ingroups and communities which inherently gatekeep newcomers from taking part.
"cliques r bad", idiosyncratic concept of meta whose meaning isn't delineated anywhere
>A community which does not focus on Activities does not exist.
tautological
>They may discuss things outside of the game, but ultimately everything interesting comes back to the game itself.
wrong again, off-topic posts may be interesting yet disconnected from the main topic despite taking place in a platform dedicated to it, arguing otherwise would require an extremely liberal conception of "coming back to"
overall failure to justify capital A "Activities" as a unique concept, also lacking delineation
et cetera
writes too much, says too little

>>11540
Well, in the case of situations where you call into question the fact based arguments (I can't really debate with your biases against me) I don't see any examples that make me think otherwise

>>11541
IM part is evidently wrong to anyone who's had an engaging back and forth in a chatroom, message board conversation is typically much slower as well
"comes back to the game itself" has no proof to accompany it, easily disproven by any good off-topic post ever

>>11542
oh I see. That's probably a typo and I meant to say messageboard. I don't think that IM can produce less volume.

Yeah that's a typo. But it's in a section talking about the value of activities so you missed the forest because you saw a dead tree.

>dead tree
i'm about to get petty buuut
>One may wonder why this is considered an aspect in online community software when the MB’s flexibility can provide a variety of Activities or the IM’s spontaneity can’t inspire hundreds of posts in an hour between two engaged individuals.
no reason to assume you would've meant MB in both cases given that you could've simply said "its spontaneity" instead, it's bad phrasing rather than a typo
your usage of activities is vacuous too, so that's of no help
i'll add
>Any community that does not have IM will eventually have one.
wrong, disproven by older platforms that never developed one, arguing that they "died before getting there" or whatever is unsubstantiated determinism

>>11545
ok well. I'm more interested in the third > than the other two so I'll ignore them. But I have reasons for thinking the third point. I just have to remember the names of the software. But if we think of it in the MMO sense, you have the game+forum+chat. A holy trinity.

I have a more relevant reason for why forums have it but I've forgotten what they used even in the 2010s. I don't think it's unfair to say that the personal usage of skype by teens around the 2000s, the time that I grew up, lead to a new way of using the internet than what the people from before that were used to.

>>11547
thinking of mmos as the basic template of platform complexes is faulty because they made up a very small minority of sites, any other kind of hobbyist platform would've only had a forum
more recent sites are more likely to have a dedicated Discord widget with a link and a list of server members rather than an integrated on-site IM
not sure why you'd bring up skype in particular over something like the earlier teamspeak (since mmos were also mentioned) and i can't really say by how much its usage grew compared to previous IMs but sure, i agree with that last part

>>11548
I'm trying to find the answer through chatgpt but it's struggling to name things.

Do you not remember how basically every site discussing anime or hentai had this thing on the sidebar for chatrooms? This thing was everywhere until Discord took over. People who used the internet a lot in the 2000s and 2010s were very familiar with this and it was an important part of online entertainment. It's hard to find it anywhere today, since nowadays that function has been replaced with a sidebar advertising their discord server.
So if we're going from a history argument... then basically every memorable site I know of had a chatroom and the ones I didn't were just sites like doujin.moe which had the polls and comment sections which were sometimes interesting.

The problem must be that we are generationaly different and our cultures came from different locations. I lived in a very different world than you know. While you might consider where you were as bad, I lived in hell. People who live in hell tend to know the internet quite well. Or in the least I have a stronger vision of it than someone like you who's probably coddled by friends and family.

So that's basically what I'm getting at. I'm trying to present my thoughts and understanding of the internet as I see it from my own perspective. I'm not right or wrong. It's my interpretation from how I see things

You can agree or disagree with what I see, but it's just that. If you don't like it then all you can do is find someone else with a better vision. This is my artistic direction. Not up for debate, though we can poke fun at my writtings and trying to come to a better conclusion that supports my vision

uh huh
though we did browse different sites, that much is true

canadian hell must be really cold

March Update
https://ko-fi.com/post/Update-March-X8X6K84VR?justpublished=true&alias=Update-March-X8X6K84VR
Written from a cold house

>>11554
if canada is frozen hell then I'd dread to imagine what canadian hell would be like

>>6583
Mike bumo

Updated with Amazon gift card instructions.
https://kissu.moe/donations

Having you considered accepting monero? You probably wouldn't get any monero donations, because no one uses it, but it would make you really cool + an agent of chaos.

>>13047
I could spare a few piconeros.